90: Temples Part 1 – from Solomon to Nauvoo

At last! Temple Episode – Part 1
Note: It was just brought to my attention that in my ongoing inability to say the right name, I say “Jacob Strang” in this episode, when I am talking about “James Strang.” Sigh. Again, as I tell my children, please listen to what I mean, not just what I say LOL.

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Links:
Zion Plans
Kirtland “Pentecost” accounts

Orson Pratt quote: The Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star 10: 264
Elder’s Journal
Joseph Smith speech — end of appointed time
William Weeks
David Crockett paper
Times and Seasons, January 20 1846

Nauvoo Temple:
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3

Nauvoo temple sealings

Brigham Young statements of unfinished temple: Journal of Discourses 1:277, 4:42, 18: 304-305, 19:220

Nauvoo temple burned

Scriptures:
2 Nephi 28:24-31
2 Nephi 5:16
Alma 16:13
Alma 13:7-8 (entire chapter)
Isaiah 24:5
D&C 95:8 (88:119)
D&C 97:10-16, 21
D&C 109:5
D&C 115:8-16
D&C 124:27-48
1 Kings 7:23-25
D&C 128:12-13
3 Nephi 26:9-10
D&C 84:54-58
2 Nephi 19/Isaiah 9
Mosiah 26:30

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Welcome to 132 problems revisiting Mormon polygamy. It’s finally here. The long awaited Temple episode. Actually, I should clarify the first part of the long awaited Temple Temple episode. As so many of these topics do this has expanded and expanded as I have studied. So it will now be two parts and this will be the first one today. So quickly, I just want to again, thank those who contribute in any who feels like they could, it would be a huge help. The links are always in the description box and then also for anyone who is new here, please consider listening to these episodes from the beginning because I think it is important to understand the purpose of this podcast and where we have come from up until this point. So thank you so much for joining us as we take this deep dive into the murky waters of the Mormon Temple. OK. First, I need to sincerely apologize that it has taken so long to get to this episode. I have been planning this since early summer, but there have been a variety of reasons for the delays. So um I have to say, well, I, I just will tell you quickly the story behind it. I was working feverishly on a topic that got so heavy. I had to set it aside. I don’t know if I’ve told that story here before, if I have forgive me. But I don’t think I have, I was working on a series on blood atonement because I wanted to go through all of Brigham’s doctrines that we have discarded. I had done race and the priesthood and now I was working on blood atonement and it got, it was a lot worse than I expected. It got so hard and so heavy that I just had to set it aside and I was feeling so stressed out because I had spent a good month of hard core research. I’d been in the archives of three different university libraries. I’ve been like, just researching this so intensely. So I just felt what do I do and how do I make up for that last time? I, I knew I would get back to the topic. I just had to set it aside for a little while. I read a few sources that did me in and I was done and couldn’t go that dark anymore right then. And it was the same time that um I was working on the response to the um people that did the podcast about polygamy Deniers when I responded to about on behalf of the polygamy Deniers, the best that I could. So that was feeling really stressful to me. I was getting ready for that one as well. And I just was like, Lord, I need a topic I can do and lo and behold, it was dropped into my lap for years and years and years. I have been trying to find out where the temple came from. Where did we get this? And what does it mean? And I’ve been thinking about it in so many different ways. And I went to see my son and daughter in law in a show in Saint George and went and toured the Saint George mansion and the missionary sister. She was um the the the she was an elderly missionary part of the couple. But she said a few things that just, I was like, what? And so I’ll tell that story more in the second part, but it dropped into my lap and I thought, oh, I can, I can do my episode on the temple. So I started researching it and it again, it started to feel so heavy because I was like, how can I talk about this? But the Lord came through and gave me the most beautiful answers that I’m excited to share and that will be shared in the second part. So, so I’m going to, so what I’m sharing now isn’t even based on the research I did from what I first learned in Saint George that will all be in the second part, I went, I’ve been researching it so much. So I went back a little bit further to study more about all of the temples in our history and try to understand what we can about temples in general. And then we’ll go on more specifically in part. Oh, I’ve separated it out. Part one will be the temples in Kirtland and Navoo. And up until the expulsion, part two will be the temples in Utah. And there is a lot to discuss on both of those topics. So I hope that I hope that people find this information as fascinating as I have found it as I’ve studied it and as useful as I find it. And then I have a couple of couple of caveats that I need to make and a couple of requests. So first of all, um well, I had planned to do this as a two part series that was going to be first just what I had learned about temples. And then part two, I was going to um interview someone about the Masonic um elements in the temple. But now after this deep research, I see that quite differently than I used to. So I, so that that Masonic um interview won’t be part of this series right now. That was part of why the delay because I was trying to get them lined up with the interview. Anyway, I always think I need to finish one topic then get to the next one. But all of a sudden this started to feel super urgent. So I’m leaving all of the other topics aside, assuming I’ll be able to pick them back up. Even if I have to do a lot more um refreshing, you know, it’s always easier to do things when they’re fresh on my mind, but I’m going to get this today. So enough talking in circles I um want to thank those who have continued to ask for these episodes and have been so patient. Um I, I too have been impatient. I I’ve been impatient to get them released. So I thank I thank you for being so patient. And I do think maybe the timing has been actually right because as I said,

[00:05:13] I’ve learned so much more than I knew when I um initially wanted to do these episodes and release them. So, OK, I have to say that um I feel a heavyweight with these episodes. I um I feel like there. Well, first of all, I know that the Lord is very involved. I have had some profound um experiences telling me information. I needed to include giving me answers. He helping me find ways to address some of these topics. I’m hesitant to share that because then all of a sudden it sounds like maybe I’m manipulating you with my answers. Please don’t take it that way. You, everybody needs to get their own answers and my answers have no weight on anybody else. I just have felt the Lord’s involvement and I am hopeful that maybe some of the things that I have learned and received will be helpful to some others. But many of those answers that were the most profound answers are going to be in part two. So this is my request. I I want people to please not start watching these temple episodes unless they are committed to and willing to watching both of them all the way through from beginning to end. Because I don’t know exactly where I’ll share. I’ll share the things that I felt the Lord most pressing on me that I needed to include and share. And um I also, I’m so aware that my audience, you, you are all in different places. Some of you are still fully committed active members of the church as I am, some of you are will have never been in the church and some of you have left the church and maybe have quite a bit of animosity against it or at least maybe look down on it and feel more in love. They are just all different perspectives. And I think what I’m feeling the most sensitive to in this episode are the people who like me still love the church. Still find great value in the church and joy in the church even when it’s hard, even though it’s hard sometimes and desire to um continue in activity in the church. And feel inspired to stay active in the church. Those are the people who I feel the most care for in this episode, like my mom who’s turning 89 and has gone to the temple her entire life. I don’t want to like, you know, make, make things more confusing and difficult. So anyway, so I, I am feeling that but at the same time, I want to present the information that I believe is true and that I have all of the sources to back up. But I believe the Lord has given, given ways, at least for me to understand it and to navigate it in ways that actually promote and affirm my faith and um give me great direction of what I can do about all of this information. So that’s why I want to request that people will listen to both episodes. It’s really easy to um especially for those of us in the church. It’s easy to feel um uncomfortable by some of the things we hear and believe that that must be the spirit telling us it’s wrong. Hopefully, people who have stuck with me this long know the difference between just cognitive dissonance and genuine um genuine warnings of the spirit, you know, but I don’t want anyone to either feel a lot of stress and fear. Like what should we do? I just, God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind, right? And so I, I want people to please pray for peace and discernment and patience and um and, and have trust that the answers will come, both the answers that I’ve received, I will share them. And also the personal answers that the Lord has for you and for those who have left the church, I also want to request that you um withhold judgment and it, you know, it’s really easy to really be hard on the church and sometimes for very good reason, but maybe there’s more um more of a picture to be gained than just thinking the church is completely wrong. And that leaving it is the obvious answer. I, I know everyone’s path takes them in different directions, but we need to withhold judgment from one another and also from the church as a whole because we are not yet aware of what God may be doing in and through the church and how God may be working in many, many different directions. So that’s, that’s my request, please, if you’re going to start listening to these episodes, be committed to finishing them so that um you will be able to hear the different perspectives and the different answers that I feel are important to share. OK. The other thing I want to say is if for anybody, this information seems difficult or challenging, if someone is just tuning in in this episode to see what this podcast is about, and you’re an active faithful member of the church who hasn’t looked at things in, from a different perspective before. Um Yes, this may be somewhat unsettling, but I really think that we need to pay more attention to our own scriptures. Right. That’s something we’ll talk about in this episode. But if, if information makes, makes us feel really upset or defensive or angry or any, any of those things, it might be because we haven’t hearkened quite enough to our own scriptures. And maybe we’ve been a little too at ease in Zion.

[00:10:11] Maybe we’ve been a little too quick to put our trust in, in the precepts of men. So I want to just quickly read second nephite 28 because I felt the truth of this. Therefore woe unto Him that is at ease in Zion. Woe unto him, that cry. All, all is well, yeah, woe be unto him that hearken unto the precepts of men and deny the power of God and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Do we trust that God can give us direction and truth and guidance through these difficult times or when, when we’re learning these difficult things? Right? Or do we want to just shut it down and say no, I will not let God give, I will not give God that opportunity because I’m going to stick with these precepts of men that have been handed down to me. Yeah, woe unto Him, that saith we have received and we need no more, right? What we know is right. We’re not gonna hear other things and then find woe unto all those who tremble and are angry because of the truth of God. For behold He that is built upon the rock receives it with gladness. That is such the test to me. If I am founded on Jesus Christ, I can’t be offended. I can’t get defensive. I can’t any of those things. I can hear information and trust that the Lord can help me discern it and I can respond in thoughtful um inspired ways, right? Sometimes the Lord, sometimes I might know, not know the answer right away, but I can still feel peace, knowing the answer will come. And it doesn’t, I don’t have to make huge life decision off bits of information, but I can at least hear the information and receive it not only with an open heart, but with a glad heart, right? I like, I think that there’s something profound about that being eager to hear more information it gives for me, it gives me more things to learn more things to study and look into. So if we’re built upon the rock of Jesus Christ, we receive it with gladness and he that is built upon a sandy foundation, tremble lest he shall fall. So that’s how we can know what our foundation is is if we are defensive and going to shut down information or if we receive it with gladness woe be unto him that say we have received, we have received the word of God and we need no more of the word of God for we have enough for behold. Thus saith the Lord God. I will give unto the Children of men, line upon line, precept upon precept here a little and there a little and be and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts and lend an ear unto my council for they shall learn wisdom and unto him that receive it. I will give more and from them that say we have enough from them shall be taken away even that which they have. I have to say how much I feel the truth of that. I feel some concern that people who have stuck with my podcast thus far. If they hear me talking about the temple, may um get offended or scared and shut down and say, OK, I don’t trust anything that I’ve learned on that podcast and I’m just gonna put all of my questions back up on the shelf and not think about it and shut down. And that’s how I think that’s one of the ways that we lose even the truth that we have been given, right? If we refuse to receive more, we’re going in one direction or the other curse. It is he that put his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm or shall hearken under the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost. And that’s up to each of us is to discern the Holy ghost. So I do ask people to be prayerful and discerning as they are listening to these episodes. I, I hope people are doing with that with my entire podcast. I certainly don’t want people to put their trust in me, in my, my little arm. But the good thing is I don’t have a calling or any position that would make people trust in me. And so we know we’re putting our trust in the arm of flesh when we are looking to people to be our authority. I think there’s a huge difference between hearing information and having it ring true and that the spirit confirm it, that is letting the spirit be your guide, right? Rather than putting a person up as your authority. I’m not anybody’s authority and you all know that. So anyway, ok, we’re going to go on to this episode. I’m giving a lot of preliminaries on this one. I apologize one more thing. I just want to be really honest about where I am and my um journey with temples. I um like probably many of us. I thought it was really weird. The first time I went through it waked me out that my parents and I was there with my to be in laws and my fiance and OK, this is what you guys do. This is weird. Right. That was my first experience and, but I also was so faithful and really wanted to learn and, um, and have faith and try and just thought, ok, I can, I can learn to understand this. And, um, so I went back and I have had times in my life when I have gone very frequently, at least weekly and then I’ve had other times in my life when I have hardly gone at all. It’s just depended on a variety of factors in life. And also um what I was feeling at that time, um I have always been thankful to have a temple, temple recommend I have for years, struggled sometimes mightily with some of the temple recommend questions for me, particularly, it’s been the ones that have felt like they’ve put leaders on pedestals. I um II, I just don’t like that, you know, so I’ve had to navigate different ways to answer those questions and different conversations to have with various leaders. And it’s been, it’s been a bit of a journey. So um since, since I started to have a lot of questions,

[00:15:30] I have gone to the temple much less often about the time that they made the new videos. And I, I just a lot of that did not resonate with me and I didn’t go as often and then it came to the shutdown. And um I felt so deeply and horribly betrayed by my church. I’m still working through that a little bit. I confess, I’ve only gone back to the temple one time since the shutdown. I went back once to see the new um recent changes and I just breathe through it because I am still dealing with a little bit of trauma. I um was so deeply traumatized in 2020 specifically with masks and um and the whole thing that was happening, but sometime I’ll tell that story. And um so to be um I, I tried during the shutdown to go to my sister’s ceiling and I called ahead. It was before it was mandatory. I called ahead to just kind of work it out with the temple. We were going to be at, say I can’t have anyone um talk to me about masks or shove it in my face or, you know, I just II, I talked to both my local leaders and the temple leaders and said, can we work this out? You know, so everyone was supposed to be on board that I could go to my sisters ceiling and not um be traumatized and it didn’t work out that way. The um message does not get passed on to the workers. And I had a really um hard experience that anyway. Anyway, then I’ve been back to my son’s ceiling, which luckily was during that little reprieve in the autumn of 21 when um masks were not required. So I was able to go see my son be sealed and then um masks are no longer required in the temple, but I’m still recovering. That did not um was not, not good and not OK with me. And, and for me, I’ll sometimes talk about my experiences and the things I learned during the shutdown. But for me, masks represent a symbol of great evil and seeing that in the temple um just messed with me big time. And so anyway, so that’s where I am. I’ve been back once, but I do have my recommend. So that’s just my um letting it lay out where I am in case anyone is wondering um I will confess, I’ve had three Children go through the temple and um with each of them, I felt just like when I was a girl going through, I felt like this is weird as a parent, I felt some degree of embarrassment. I’m curious. I would love if you guys would like, share your thoughts in the comments and your experiences is I, I guess I’m feeling like if I admitted that among really uh like sort of the most faithful crowd, I might feel be worried about some degree of judgment. But I did, I just was like, OK, this is so weird and this is what we do, you know, and, and I have spent so long delving into the symbolism of it and find I have found great value there. But this has been an interesting journey and study for me because I have all of these questions and all of these feelings and it’s sometimes it’s hard to know which way should I go? Like, do I just need to dive in more and understand more about the temple and become more comfortable with it so that I don’t feel this embarrassment or do I need to listen to, to some discernment? And maybe the Lord is trying to tell me something and I’m going just like people talked about with polygamy. Which way do I go with this? I just need to study it more and feel more comfortable with it or do I just need to like, acknowledge that it’s not? Right. Right. I, I still don’t have those outsource for myself regarding the temple. But that’s, that’s why this has been such a fascinating journey and why I’m going to share. So that’s where that’s where it is. So now let’s dig in after all the preliminaries. OK. So the first question I have is why do we have temples in general? Are temples? Good. That’s something I thought about for a long time, especially as I’ve gone through. Sometimes the new temple open houses when they did the one in Draper. I’m in Utah when they did the one in Draper and then um daybreak, whatever you, you know, they’ve had so many temple open houses and they would always have the little notes telling you the fine mahogany from this place and the, you like, about, about just the, like, top notch materials and, and sometimes I kind of have a little bit of a, um, I don’t know what you would call it. Uh, like, um, oh, goodness, I can’t think of the term so I’ll just explain it but kind of a bias against materialism, whether that’s right or wrong. That’s just kind of how I’ve been, you know, and so when I would go to the parade of homes, I would just kind of feel yucky. I only went a couple of times and it was like, oh, I don’t like this, like, I guess I have an anti materialist bias and, you know, I’ve, I’ve done some work healing that as well, but that’s kind of been my feeling. So sometimes that was the feeling I would get with the temple is like, what is this, all of this great finery? Is this really what God wants us to do with our money? When, especially when like, there are people without enough in the world. And I don’t know that we could just solve that,

[00:20:25] snap our fingers and solve it even with immense amounts of money. But, but I always have always had that question. So that goes back to the question of what is, what is the good of temples. And then when we look at the sacrifice of our pioneers, and as I’ve learned so much more about Utah, that question has grown for me for sure. Like, is it right to have people just starving to death while we are building temples that, you know, I have, I have those questions. And so um so kind of going over the history and, and I have some answers that I’ll share that my answers. But going over the history, it’s interesting because Adam didn’t build a temple, at least one that I know of. He built altars, you know, but they weren’t necessarily permanent structures that I, I don’t think someone can correct me if I’m getting any details wrong but and an altar to pray, but that’s very different than a temple. That’s a permanent structure, right? And then going through the scripture, same with Abraham, he built, built off um built altars and traveled to sacred Mount mountains to pray. But he did not build a temple. Jacob constructed a pillar to commemorate the sacred spot where he had his angelic wrestle, but he also didn’t build temples. Moses went to um the sacred mountains to see God and um he carried the ark of the covenant in a Tabernacle that was portable, that’s very different than a temple. Um The brother of Jared in the book of Mormon, he went up the sacred mountain and beheld God, but I can’t find that he built temples either. And so now I, yeah, I don’t, I don’t recall uh um temple in, in the, the brother of Jared built ugly. So it leaves me with questions it wasn’t until we had an Israelite king. Right. They had gotten rid of their system of judges, which, you know, II, I again have questions about both ways but God did tell them that having a king was a lower, um, I, I guess a lower law and that there would be a lot of problems with the king that kings would abuse their authority would take the riches from the people would tax them, would take their daughters. So and then it was a king who first built a temple. That’s interesting, right? And then um also, let’s see, um the king that first built the temple is a king that was fallen even by the standard of 132. It wasn’t just a king, it was a polygamist king who had committed adultery and murder murder. In addition to being a polygamist which is adultery. He had committed official adultery with Bathsheba with another man’s wife and then had that man killed to cover it up, right? And so interestingly, even according to section 132 David was fallen. Um murder is the one sin that 1 32 c claims can’t just be overlooked. And um it says about David, therefore, he hath fallen from his exaltation and received his portion and he shall not inherit them out of the world, his wives, his property. Uh God love 132 for I gave them unto another say, the Lord and David apparent. So Yes, David had his wives taken away and his son would further betray the Lord through polygamy by following his wives to worship false gods. So that’s where our first temple came from, right? And it’s interesting because Solomon’s temple is described along with his extreme wealth, those chapters and first king just are all blended in together and, and the the wealth was gained mainly by the genocidal wars that his father bought and the I and his father aged and then all of the booty that they gathered as a result. And then also they had complete conquest of the entire area, the entire regions. They were able to be in charge of all commerce and trade and money just poured in and in and into their coffers. And that’s all described right along with the temple. So it talks about the glory of Solomon’s house, his palace and his throne. It just goes on and on and describes the gold and the cedar of the temple. And then it continues on gives us many temp um details of Solomon’s extreme, well, extreme riches which exceeded all the kings of the earth. And then it continues on to tell us another part of his extreme wealth is his many, many, many hundreds of wives and concubines, right? That’s also a sign of wealth and glory. So I left, I it has just left me asking a question whether temples were always built purely to honor God or if they were also built to honor man to kind of be a symbol of the greatness of their civilization, which included their civilizations. God. Right? And so those are questions that I’ve always kind of been asking, I guess I shouldn’t say always have, but I have for many years been asking and I, I think there’s some value to those questions. I think they are things that we should also ask about our. Well, it’s always in all of our endeavors, especially when we are wanting to serve the Lord. Like, are we building temples or rams? Right? And how do we know if a temple is really a temple to God or kind of a temple to man too? And that’s what for those who are not L Ds Ramy Uptons in the book of Mormon, were sort of a temple to the greatness of man that they could pray

[00:25:18] on top of in gratitude that they were the chosen and the best, right? And that’s something that we need to be really careful of. And I think we need to know which category our own um works fit in. Are we building a king? Are we really 100% building God’s kingdom or our own kingdom to some degree? And can we really always discern the difference? That’s something that I at least always am asking myself. And I think is a valuable question for all of us. And I think a question that comes into play with temples. So, but in this study, ne I also the temple. Um and I mean, I did build a temple and, and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon say, but we’re not built of so many precious things. And so is that an improvement? Was he doing it in a more godly way or was it just because they weren’t available on the land which they weren’t? And so that’s another question. And then the Nephites, this was fun to see when I studied, they also had many other temples, they had built them at least in Zemla bountiful. And it mentions many other temples and also mentions Lamanites that the Lamanites had built temples, the temples in the book of Mormon seem to mainly serve as places to gather and hear from the leaders. So we have Jacob’s famous address on pride and polygamy um delivered at the temple. And um that was at Nephi temple that he had built King Benjamin’s epic sermon was at the temple in Zarah Hela. Um And then Jesus preached to the people, he appeared and preached to the people at the temple at Bountiful. And so um there are many other mentions of temples as well, but of the teachings of temples, that’s the main context that they’re mentioned in. Not so much as a place for um sacrifices that I have seen like even Old Testament sacrifices or definitely of any ordinances that we would recognize today. And so, um so anyway, it’s like, for example, Alma, and it says they went forth preaching repentance to the people in their temples and in their sanctuaries and also in their synagogues which were built after the manner of the Jews. So even the Lamanites were building temples after the manner of the Jews, which is what ne I also did. So it’s, it’s interesting to, to trace this through, trace this through time. And in this entire episode, I will share the answers that I received. But I I will share more questions because I so in some ways think the questions are even more valuable than the answers, right? Because then we are all able to seek. In fact, I saw in one comment, someone was like, I’m so tired of waiting for her to get to the temple episode. I’m just gonna start studying myself. I was, I was like, good, good, do that, please. So let’s all share together. I hope we’re all studying, right? So um ok, so Old Testament temples that well the one test the temple in the Old Testament was mainly the temple of Solomon. But as I’ve gotten in, it was rebuilt many times and there were actually a lot of um mentions of temples being rebuilt, right? And it seemed they seem to be places of animal sacrifice primarily. I wonder how through all of those hundreds of years they might have changed because things don’t usually stay stagnant. But um the idea we have of them, it’s where they could offer their rituals and the rights of the mosaic law and that there were those things were performed by the levitical priests. And so the book of Mormon says it was the followed the same pattern. So I assume there was something similar going on, but it really doesn’t talk about that in the book of Mormon. Um So anyway, OK. Yes. So that’s the Book of Mormon Temples seem to be primarily places to gather and hear from leaders, missionaries, hear sermons. And so um endowment, this is interesting because I’m kind of comparing our temples today to the temples in the past, right? Because we have this idea that there’s this consistency and um and I generally don’t see it. So that’s what I’ve been part of what I’ve been trying to figure out all of these years. And so endowment is what we talk about now in the temple. It’s one of the main things we go to do at the temple. I, I think Washington Anointings endowment and then ceilings is kind of what I think of in our modern temple. So it’s interesting because endowment or even any form of the word is not mentioned anywhere in the book of Mormon. And so um it, it, let’s see, what did I want to say about that? Oh, it’s a really interesting study. So, Endowment, I think the way Joseph Smith used. It is also very different than how we use it today. So that’s something I’ll get into a little bit more, maybe in part two. But I didn’t think to do the doctor in the covenant study of Endowment. So that’s something we should do. But it’s interesting to see that it’s not

[00:29:26] in the book of Mormon Ordinance is mentioned. And that is another fascinating study. I have to say this study has taken me so many different directions. And one hard thing about a podcast is when I study, I love to just go wherever, wherever I’m, you know, whatever rabbit hole opens up next, I want to go there and I can’t do that, but I have a podcast. So I had to not follow some of these because I’d already taken way too long to get this done. So if anyone wants to do the um Rabbit Trail on ordinance and steady ordinance everywhere in the scriptures, it’s really fascinating. I can give you just a couple of hints to get you started as far as I got in just a few minutes I spent on it. It is useful to read that to know that ordinance and order and ordain are all from the same root word, right? That means basically to um let’s see, what did I say? I wrote it down um to, to put in order. Yeah, that’s what I thought it means to put in order. So, an ordinance is just putting in order and you put in order by or you, you ordain someone with an ordinance to put them in order, right? And that just knowing that little bit sheds a lot of light on Alma th alma 13. Um I’ll just read verses seven and eight. This whole chapter is filled with, with information on this topic, this high priesthood being after the order of the Sun um of his son. So there’s order, it’s the order of the sun, right? Which order was from the foundation of the world or in other words, with being without beginning of days or end of years, being prepared from eternity to all eternity according to his Foreknowledge of all things. Now, they were ordained after this manner, being called with a holy calling and ordained with a holy ordinance and taking upon them the high priesthood of the holy order, which calling an ordinance and high priesthood is without beginning or end. These kinds of scriptures are so important because they really should give us the opportunity. All of all of that chapter is just fascinating in this context and thinking about the um consistent or eternal nature of things, right? Is what we is, how we interpret that today and how we implement it and how we talk about it consistent throughout all time. Because this is, this is telling us it should be and that it is. And if we understand it correctly, it will be consistent throughout time. So those are interesting things to comprehend, to understand. So we can at least know that we have questions to ask right about what ordinances really are and what order we are being ordained into if we are really understanding it correctly and where we maybe don’t understand it quite correctly in our current context. So anyway, ok, this also helps us understand Isaiah 24 5. The earth is also the earth also is defiled and under the in and under the inhabitants thereof because they have transgressed the laws changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. That’s really interesting to consider. I think I was just in a meeting a little while ago and the people were talking about how the temple has changed so much with recently and really concerned about it. We’ve changed, we’ve changed the ordinances and I used to, I used to kind of wonder about that too, especially with the changes made in the nineties that was before I went to the temple, but I’d heard about them. But um now I see that completely differently, like the ordinances are eternal. It’s not just what we’ve, what we’ve changed from the first temple in the L DS time to the last temple. You know, it’s, it’s not that at all, it’s a much bigger, bigger picture of what it means to change the ordinances. And I think that reading Alma 13 can really help us gain insight into that. And and that same um warning is repeated in doctrine of covenants 115 for they have strayed from mine ordinances and have broken mine everlasting covenant. We need to remember that we’re supposed to liken these scriptures to us. It’s so easy for us in our current context to apply these things to everyone other than ourselves when they are our scriptures and we’re the ones that are supposed to be reading them. So, ok, so there’s some preliminary questions about temples and ways to think about things and into the, the mix of questions about temples. I have to add the fact that Joseph Smith was commanded to build temples and doctrine, covenants. Um 124 which is an extremely important section that we are going to get into quite a bit. But um it says people are always commanded to build a temple, my holy house unto my holy name. Now I want to um clarify something anyway. So, so that is a big deal that God’s people are always commanded to build a temple according to God. I want to understand more what that means and what temples mean in that context? Because did Adam build a temple? Right? Did, did um the brother of Jared build a temple? Did Abraham build a temple? These are really good questions uh for me to try to understand,

[00:34:17] but I hope we are all going to try to understand. But knowing that Joseph’s that God told Joseph that God’s people are always commanded to build temples. I had a bit of an epiphany that I think I’ll also expand on more in part two. But maybe the reason it is so important to be directly commanded by God to build a temple and be given specific instru instructions about it. We’ll read more about that in a little while. Maybe that’s because God will only command people who are already committed to building up God’s kingdom, right? So the temples will hopefully be built up to the Lord more than to the people themselves. And so um and maybe hopefully people whose leaders were given commands to build temples could have more trust that their leaders wouldn’t take advantage of their sacrifice. And um that’s, that’s what I’m hoping. And so we’ll get into that more a little bit, I believe as well. So, ok, so I believe Joseph was commanded to build four temples. I think there’s one more that some people think was commanded, but I, I can’t find evidence of that. So the four temples I have that Joseph was commanded to build are Kirtland Far West, the Independence, the temple in Zion in Jackson County, Missouri and Naf and I believe that Kirtland was the only one that was completed. And so, um well, we’ll get into that discussion going forward as well. So the Kirtland Revelation is Doctor Mc Covenants 95 8 given in 18 33. Yeah. Verily, I say unto you, I gave you a commandment that you should build a house in the which house I designed to endow those whom I have chosen with power from on high verily, I say unto you, it is my will that you should build a house. If you keep my commandments, you shall have power to build it. So I believe that this was referring back when he said I told you to build my house was referring back at least in part to doctor Covenants 88 1 19, which had been given five months earlier, which we all know organized ourselves, prepare every needful thing and establish a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order a house of God. So that had been given five months earlier. So I think that that’s what it was referring to. The Kirtland Temple was very, very different from later temples. And I want to draw attention to a couple of things. God said that he wanted the Kirtland temple built so that he could endow his people with power and from on high and give them an endowment, right? So I think we really should be open to reconsidering our definitions and our understanding of those words and what those mean because the Kirkland temple was nothing like our temples today. So you can see from the pictures I I know that when I went there as a girl, my parents took us there and I was just so surprised by what it was and I think that many visitors have that reaction. We’re expecting something similar to a temple like we have seen and it’s completely different. And so you can see from these pictures how, um, how it’s not at all like our temples. In fact, they have these, um, stands on sides of the temple and I don’t know that anyone is certain what those initials mean, but the benches in between them, it’s so um it was just so in um creative, I guess, instead of just having benches with backs, they have boxes and the bench inside moves from one side to the other. So depending on which side they were listening to, they would move the bench so it could face either way, which I think is just fascinating. And so this temple while it was so different, it was completed and it seems to have been accepted by God. Um It was attended by spiritual outpourings that I don’t see records that have been repeated in our history. Um It’s, it’s been called the Mormon day of Pentecost. And so that was a really big deal and I think I’ll read some sources in a little while. So the next temple that was commanded was Jackson County. Um the temple at Zion, this was also in 1833 and its doctrine covenants 97 starting on verse 10, verily, I say unto you that it is my will that a house should be built unto me in the land of Zion, like unto the pattern which I have given you. And I don’t know if that means, no, I don’t think that means the pattern in Kirtland. I think that means the pattern that was given for um Zion because Joseph did write out very extensive specific plans of how Zion was to be established. And I don’t know how far he got on his plans on, on the temp for the temple or if we have them. Um But, but he, I think that that’s probably what it was speaking, speaking to. Yeah, let it be built speedily and by the tithing of my people behold, this is the tithing and the sacrifice which I the Lord require at their hands that there may be a house built unto me for the salvation of Zion, for a place of, oh, that’s interesting. And this gives us more um I like these scriptures because they give us more understanding into Joseph’s. And if we believe Joseph was inspired, then God’s understanding of temples for his people, right? So um it was a, it was to be for the salvation of Zion. So that’s really interesting to think about for a place of thanksgiving for all saints and for a place of instruction for all those who are called to the work of the ministry. And there are several callings and offices that they may be perfected. In their understanding of their ministry, in theory, in principle and in doctrine,

[00:39:16] in all things pertaining to the Kingdom of God on the earth, the keys, the keys of which kingdom have been conferred upon you. And inasmuch as my people built a house unto me in the name of the Lord and do not suffer any unclean thing to come in it, to come into it, that it be not defiled. My glory shall rest upon it. Yeah, and my present shall be there for I will come into it. Now, this part is really important and all the pure in heart that shall come into it shall see God. And if we skip down to verse 21 it says, therefore verily thus saith the Lord. Let Zion rejoice for this is Zion, the pure in heart. Therefore, let Zion rejoice. And I think that’s interesting that Zion is made up of the pure in heart. And when there’s temple in Zion, the pure in heart who go to the temple behold God. That’s one of the central purposes of temples as Joseph understood them. It seems to me. And so again, the description of this temple sounds like it’s a place to be instructed similar to the temples in the book of Mormon, right? And that’s the um what the and what the Kirtland temple was and as a place to behold God. And it um it’s interesting to me also that I want to think more about that for the salvation of Zion. Maybe there is some power and protection in temples. I’ve been told that often. And then also that the temple in Zion was the place where the people could behold the face of God. So, um that’s really interesting. They didn’t get that one built. We just have the temple lot um marked with a marker that people can go see. I don’t believe that work was ever begun on the um the temple in Jackson County because they were kicked out almost immediately. So, um then going forward, we, well, the um the current temple was finished and was dedicated. And the dedicatory prayer confirms what we’re told about temples in the commandment to build the temple in Zion. This is section 109 verse five for thou knowest that we have done this work. This is the prayer that Joseph was giving to dedicate the um Kurland temple. And he said that the prayer was given by revelation for thou knowest that we have done this work through great tribulation and out of our poverty have we have given of our substance to build a house to thy name that the son might have, that the son of man might have a place to manifest himself to his people. So that’s the purpose of the temple was and, and, and I, I think that’s really interesting, right? So when the Kirtland Temple was being finished and, and being dedicated there was an outpouring. I, I said it was the Mormon day of Pentecost. And I want to just read a couple of um the, the, the examples of what happened, it said that um the temple was attended by miraculous visions, healings and spiritual outpourings. Oh, and they were recorded contemporaneously. And um well, all for all except one huge exception that we’ll get to, I think in part two. But other than that one exception, it was often been compared to the biblical day of Pentecost. Um And we have at least six contemporaneous sources. So that’s why I think like I’ve learned, OK, let’s see what the people were saying about it then. And when things happened, we do have contemporaneous sources, which is how we can confirm that they happened. And also when we don’t have contemporaneous sources, it should make us suspicious if something actually happens. So just one of them is a letter Benjamin Brown sent to his wife. And um it’s important for a couple of reasons that we’ll get to. Um a little bit later, it confirms and describes many of the miraculous event events. It says many marvelous things transpired even greater than at the day of Pentecost. The people are increasing in faith and expecting a ex expect greater endowment. So how the word endowment was used, right? It was, it meant being given divine power um directly from God. Many visions are given and also revelations by day and by night, it goes on and describes many of them. So sadly, the people were also forced to flee Kirtland and um with all sorts of financial problems, the bank crashing. And I want to pause just for a second because people, so many people talk to me about all of the things that like, like one of the responses is, well, who cares if he didn’t do polygamy? What about this? And this and this and this and this and one of the main things they say is his bank fraud. And I think that is either terribly uninformed or terribly unfair and probably both because if you look into what was actually happening at that time, there was a nationwide banking crash and bank failures, the banking practices were very different than today. Also, they had lost so much money in Missouri that had never been, um, they’ve never been compensated for, they had so many things going on. And I think that I don’t, I mean, we know that Joseph Smith was not a financial wizard that wasn’t his strong suit. But I think it’s a real AAA really big stretch to claim, motivated fraud. And like, like I need to see a lot better evidence than I’ve seen of that. And I’ve looked into it. I think more than most people who are making these claims to me. And so that anyway, I just wanna say, let’s cut, I,

[00:44:19] I say we should definitely cut Joseph some slack on that one because there were so many things happening and we don’t understand the full details, the people that are saying that generally, so I’d be happy to have a conversation with some accountants really looking into it. In fact, maybe that’s a good future topic. So, but in the meantime, I think we should cut Joseph a lot of slack on the banking crisis that hurt him at least as much, if not more than a hurt anybody else. And he had to flee Kirtland and many of the people did. There was a huge falling away in the church. It was a hard time. So next, after that, they ended up in far West and there was an 1835 revelation. Now, this is where I wanted to talk about that. This one, it’s section 115 and it’s a little bit tricky because it was also added to the doctrine of covenants in 1876. And I have learned that we need to be really careful of what of sections that were added in 1876 which is where section 132 was added. And section 110 that we’ll talk about a little bit more at some point. But anyway, section 115 seems very legit because there is again contemporaneous evidence for it. There are, it was written down, it was sent in a letter at least one letter, if not more, it was recorded at the time. So it wasn’t included, it was given in 1835. So that’s why it wasn’t in the 1833 Doctrine and covenants, my guess is it wasn’t included in the 1844 Doctrine and covenants that Joseph oversaw both of those because it no longer applied. They weren’t in Far West anymore. That’s, that’s my thinking of why it wasn’t included, but then they added it to section, I mean, in 1876. So um this episode, what happened in Far West gives us a lot of critical lessons about temple building. I said before that it, how important it was that a temple be specifically commanded. And that’s where we get this lesson. Joseph taught that the temples needed to be built only by direct command from God. So when the people left Kirtland and they didn’t have their temple anymore, they couldn’t came to N vu I mean too far west. These good people wanted a temple. So they started, they started on their own to put forth the effort to build one. And Joseph explained that they could not build a temple when God had not issued a specific commandment and given instructions. So the people understood and all voted unanimously quote. This is what was printed in the millennial star that the that the building of the house of the Lord be postponed till the Lord shall reveal it to, shall reveal it, to be his will to be commenced. And that’s what what I was referring to before? I think that’s an important thing that God has to tell us to build a temple. And so, and that will become more important again. In part two, we’ll need to remember that because it applies. Um Orson Pratt also remembered this teaching and he wrote in 1848 the house of God could not be built without new revelation to give the pattern of its various apartments. The house of God never was in any past age and never can be in any future age built without express commandments or new revelations being given to the people who built it. So as I said, that will become increasingly important in part two as we get to the Utah temples. So OK, the next um oh, I guess this is the revelation to build the temple out far, far west. It did come eventually. April 26th, 1838. And this is recorded in what I said, the section 115 that was added in 76 but seems to have been a legitimate revelation just maybe not meant to be included in the doctrine of covenants according to Joseph Smith. So verse eight, therefore, I command you to build a house unto me for the gathering together of my saints that they may worship me, skip it to 10 and let the let the beginning be made on the fourth day of July next and from that time forth, let my people, people labor diligently to build a house unto my name. And in one year from this day, let them recommence laying the foundation of my house. So um this was given on April 26th. I said, so they did begin the temple on July 4th and then a year later on April 26th after they had already been kicked out of Naville. Well, they laid the foundation stones on July 4th and that’s when Sidney Rigdon gave his unfortunate extermination talk. He said um that if any mobs come up upon us, it will be a war, a war of extermination between us and them and one or the other would be destroyed. That was um an unfortunate talk because the extermination order was issued from the governor several months after that. And that seems to have been a central part of the um escalation that led to that and why those words were used. So but continuing on verse 14 says, but let a house be built unto me unto my name according to the pattern which I will show unto them. So the pattern is important, right? And if and if my people build it not according to the pattern which I shall show unto their, unto their presidency, I will not accept it at their hands. This becomes increasingly important as well as we go forward that it had to be built according to the pattern that was shown to the first presidency but if my people do build it according to the pattern which I shall show into their presidency, even my servant Joseph and his counselors,

[00:49:16] then I will accept it at the hands of my people. So as I said, cornerstones were laid on July 4th which had been said and then a year later, even though they had been kicked out of navoo the Apostle, um I I was it five of the apostles stealthily snuck in and gathered at midnight and rolled a big stone onto the foundation so that they could follow that um command to commence the building a, a year from the day the revelation was given. But um the church now has erected a monument. I believe they did this. They bought the land in 1909. I think they bought it from the descendants of David Whitmer who own, who stayed. And then they built this monument in 1968. But I, I don’t know why they’ve never built a temple there. I find that to be interesting. So anyway, the important part to note from that, in fact, as I’m going through these and I it’s so interesting how the Lord does give us line upon line, you know, and we learn in each of these different temple episodes, other important lessons. So from this one, we learn in part, the importance of following the exact only building it when God tells us to and then following the exact pattern that God that God reveals. So um ok, all of these scriptures that we’ve gone over so far as I’ve said, can help us understand the purpose of temples and, and the meaning and what they are supposed to be from Joseph’s perspective, from God’s perspective, we can consider what that means for us. So now on to the meat of this episode, which is the Navoo temple. So this is section 124 of the doctrine and covenants. This was given January 19th 1841 regarding um as I said, the navoo temple and there is a lot to this one. So I’m first going to read it. Then I’ll just go over a few snippets. There’s so much here that it would take a full episode just on, just, just on this one section to break it down completely. But I’ll start at verse uh verse 27. And um God commands the people to build a house to my name for the most high to dwell there in, for there is not a place found on earth that he may come, come to and restore again that which was lost unto you. That’s important or which you have taken away even the fullness of the priesthood. I’m gonna pause there. So do you hear that they had something and then it was taken away? So whatever, maybe what they were endowed with in the Cartland Temple had been taken away. I don’t know exactly. But it says right there. II I don’t, I, I guess I should say, I don’t want to say exactly what, how everyone has to interpret this, but I think we need to pay attention to it. Um that God wanted to restore again, that which was lost unto our ancestors in the church or which he has taken away even the fullness of the priesthood. So as we talked about this eternal order and the ordaining in the order through an ordinance, right? And these things that are described, something was given and then was taken away for a baptismal font. There is not upon the earth that they my saints may be baptized for those who are dead. I’ll talk about that a little bit more in a minute. For this ordinance belong to my house. The baptisms um belong to my house and cannot be acceptable to me only in the days of your poverty where in year wherein ye are not able to build a house unto me. But I command you all ye my saints to build a house unto me. And I grant unto you a sufficient time to build a house unto me. And during this time, your baptism shall be acceptable unto me. So they were granted a sufficient amount of time. But but behold, at the end of this appointment, this appointment of time, your baptisms for your dead shall not be acceptable unto me. And if you do not, these things at the end of the appointment. So that’s when the deadline was, it was the end of the appointment, right? It didn’t have an a a never ending deadline at the end of the appointment, ye shall be rejected as a church with your dead. Saith the Lord your God. We’re gonna talk about that more in a little while as well. And there and again, verily, I say unto you, how shall your washings be acceptable? And to me, except you perform them in a house which you have built up built to my name for, for this cause. I commanded Moses that he should build a Tabernacle, that they should bear it with them in the wilderness and to build a house in the land of promise that those ordinances may might be revealed, which had been hidden from before the world was. Um Now Joseph tells us his, his perspective of what should occur in temples. Therefore, verily, I say unto you that your anointings and your washings and your baptisms for the dead and your solemn assemblies and your memorials and your saint and your sacrifices by the sons of Levi and judgments um and for your oracles and for the most holy places where you receive conversations and your statutes and judgments for the beginning of the revelations and the foundation of Zion and for the glory honor and endowment of all her new municipals are ordained by the ordinance of my holy house, which my people are always commanded to build unto my holy name. That’s what I read before. So that tells us that’s worth going through and really considering how well that applies to our temples today.

[00:54:16] And verily I say unto you, let this house be built unto my name that I may reveal my ordinances there in unto my people. So God wants to reveal his ordinances in the temple for I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept, hid from the before the foundation of the world that pertain to the dispensation of the fullness of time. So it wasn’t just a resurrection of the Old Testament temples, right? This was something new and I will show unto my servant Joseph, all things pertaining to this house. So who was going to get the instruction in the instructions Joseph, right? And he was going to show him in detail, all the things pertaining to it, to the building of the house and the priest had thereof and the place where on it shall be built. It specifies Joseph, not just whoever claims to hold the keys or the position, right? If ye labor with your might, I will consecrate that spot that it shall be made holy. And if my people will hearken unto my voice and then to the voice of my servants whom I have appointed to lead my people. So the servants that God appointed to lead them behold verily, I say unto you. They shall not be moved out of their place. That’s a big key indicator, right? But if they will not hearken to my voice nor into the voice of these men whom I have appointed, they shall not be blessed because they pollute my holy grounds and my holy ordinances and ch and charters and my holy words which I give unto them and it shall come to pass that if you build a house unto my name and do not do the things that I say, I will not perform the oath which I make unto you, neither fulfill the promises which you expect at my hands. Saith the Lord for instead of instead of blessings ye by your own works, bring cursing wrath, indignation, and judgment upon your own heads by your own fo by your follies and by all your abominations which you practice before me saith the Lord. OK? There is a lot there. I know I read a ton. Please forgive me. But I hope that a lot of that really sunk in. If not, I recommend going back and spending plenty of time pondering over those verses and considering what they mean. I wanted to just talk about a couple of things. There’s so much here, but just a couple of things that I’ll talk about this time. First, I was curious in verse 29 where it says for a baptismal font, there is not upon the earth that they may my saints may be baptized for those who are dead. And I just was curious where the idea of a baptismal font had come from because I couldn’t think of one, you know, um John, the baptist was baptizing in the river Jordan like where, where did the idea of a baptismal font come from? And why was it important? So I just had that question and then there’s no mention of the bapt of a baptismal font anywhere in scripture. And so I searched and searched through the Joseph Smith papers trying to find any mention mention of a baptismal font before this um revelation had been given because that term wouldn’t even necessarily have existed if you know, I I wanted to know where it came from. I was just about to give up when I finally found this one entry that was printed in the elders. It was in the elders journal from August 1838. So a couple of years before this revelation was given, the elders journal is an interesting source and I will be talking about it more in the future. It was printed for a very short time in Far West and it was, it was edited by Joseph Smith. So this article was written by Steven Post who became a follower of Jacob Strang instead of Brigham Young in the succession crisis, which is probably why we haven’t heard of him. But in this, he quotes an 18th century German Lutheran church historian named Johann Lorenz Von Von Moshe. And so he says, Doctor Moshe says, quote, the sacrament of baptism was administered in this century, meaning the first century without the public assemblies in places appointed and prepared for that purpose and was performed by an immersion of the whole body in the baptismal font. I thought that was so fascinating. He goes on, this is was according to the teachings of the savior and the apostles in John three, except a man be born of water in the spirit. He cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. And that is the only place I can find a baptismal font mentioned. I did the episode on the Mikva, which I think was on one of my David episodes where I was talking about Bathsheba. I think that’s where I talked about it. And that was actually the ritualistic bath that women did to purify themselves two weeks after they had started their period, I believe, right? And so the Mi Mikva is where David was watching the women where he spotted that bash. That’s the closest thing I can find to a baptismal font or even to baptism um in the Old Testament. And I think it’s actually quite beautiful that John, the Baptist and Jesus, if they were the first ones baptized or whoever started baptisms, actually took a feminine

[00:59:09] um ordinance or ritual and applied it to more broad, applied it more broadly to all people. So that that I thought was kind of a neat thing, you know. So anyway, I wonder what the connections are, but in any case, it was Von Moshe that was quoted to talk about a baptismal font. And it was interesting to see how Joseph adopted that and then made a connection with first kings 723 which is where um we have what is called in the Bible, the molten Sea, which is described in Solomon’s temple started as its first king seven, starting with 23 and he made a molten sea. I’m cutting it down to top a lot about the details and it stood upon 12 oxen, three looking toward the north and three, looking toward the west and three looking toward the south and three looking toward the east and the sea was set above upon them and their hinder parts were inward so that Joseph read and turned that into the baptismal font. It’s amazing to see the inception of, of some of his religious innovations and to kind of get an idea of where they came from and the connections that he, that he felt inspired to make. So anyway, the Nabu Temple would be the first one with a font and we get more information about the font. This isn’t essential to um our topic. It just was something that I thought was an interesting sidetrack because I was reading about the font. And I had to thought, where did that come? From. So, um we get more information about the top font in Joseph’s letter that was September 6th 1842. And that’s the letter that talks about the absolute necessity of keeping records and that’s how they could seal things on earth and seal them in heaven. That’s what sealing actually meant. That was the final piece I needed to tip me into the camp of believing that that of getting rid of my last vestige of doubts that Joseph might have had anything to do with polygamy because there are no records and he was so committed to the keeping of records. That’s something important to consider when we get to some of the claims that were made about endowments occurring. So anyway, um the ordinance. So, so this is what he wrote in um in section that was recorded in section 128 in the doctrine of covenants, the ordinance of baptism by water to be immersed there in, in order to answer the likeness of the dead, that one principle that one principle might accord with the other to be immersed in the water and come forth out of the water is in the likeness of the resurrection of the dead and coming forth out of their graves. Hence, this ordinance was instituted to form a relationship with the ordinance of baptism for the dead, being in likeness of the dead. And that’s why they had to put it. Oh, here it comes, verse 13 consequently, the baptismal font was instituted as a similitude of the grave and was commanded to be in a place underneath where the living are want to assemble, to show forth the living and the dead to make that commonality with heaven and earth as well. He goes on to say so, um so that left me wondering if that’s what baptism about was about right? Then why they only did the baptisms for the dead in the temple font and all baptisms. And I researched it and found out actually in NAV when they had the font, they did all baptisms in the font. We do it differently today where we have fonts in church buildings and I guess we do step down into them, but they’re not in the temple the same way. So it just, it’s a lot of interesting things to think about. Why are people who are old considered old enough to be baptized, not old enough to be baptized for the dead, right? Like what are the distinctions of the differences? Another thing that I think is interesting is that Joseph did not differentiate. He was not big on gender roles and separation. He allowed men to be baptized for women and women to be baptized for men. And that’s really interesting. I only found that out because one of the quotes I’ll come from, I’ll, I’ll read going forward comes from a speech that Brigham Young was giving when he nixed that. And said, no longer would that be allowed, women had to be baptized for women and men had to be baptized for men. Because, and, and it’s where he first begins to say that Joseph was given line upon line precept on precept. He didn’t understand this part, but I understand it, which kind of seems to be the, the gen the like central concept of the church going forward with Brigham and still to today, which will get to more in part two, that Joseph just didn’t understand that needed to explain it. And because how horrible would it be? He goes on to explain if a woman were baptized for her grandfather and then she wanted to be ordained for her grandfather. We can’t have that happening. So clearly, women can’t be baptized for men. He doesn’t give us specific examples of white men can’t be baptized for women. But anyway, I think it is interesting to see how Joseph was not

[01:03:38] nearly as concerned about gender roles and divisions as Brigham was going forward. So anyway, there’s a little sidetrack into the temple font and where it might have come from. So another point I wanted to make in this um in these verses in 124 that we, we read. That’s a little more on point with what we’re talking about in this episode, verse for verse 32. And this was considered from everything I can see, considered to be the most important verse to the exclusion of many other verses by the um L DS who stayed to, to finish the temple. It says, but behold, at the end of this appointment, your baptisms for your dead shall not be acceptable to me. And if you do not, these things at the end of the appointment, ye shall be rejected as a church with your dead saith the Lord. So this is a really important thing to know. I, I just as I’m reading it now, it does say not if you don’t finish the temple, you’ll be rejected with your dead, with your dead. But at the appointment, at the end of the appointment, if you haven’t finished the temple by then, you will be rejected as a church with your dead. So 10 months later, there was an October conference and Joseph gave just a beautiful, it was just a gorgeous speech about baptisms for the dead, which has been omitted from church history. And so um the, it says, let’s see, 01 thing it says, the speaker presented baptism for the dead as the only way that men can appear as saviors on Mount Zion. So that’s something that Joseph taught that. I’ve never heard that. That’s how we’re saviors on Mount Zion. I thought that he goes on to clarify. You’re not saving anyone but you’re acting as proxy for them, which enables them to be saved. And so that’s how you’re being a savior on Mount Zion. Then um this is what happened at the very end of the speech, this speaker then announced there shall be no more baptisms for the dead until the ordinance can be attended to in the font of the Lord’s house. And the church shall not hold another general conference until they can meet in the in inside house. For thus saith the Lord with an exclamation point. And that’s the end of his speech. So in the name of the Lord, he told them that the appointment was over, that it had ended. And so it seems like this should be considered as, as that as the end of their appointed time. They did go ahead and do a makeshift roof over the basement and continue to do um baptisms and Joseph did have them continue on the temple. So um you know, so that’s something to consider, but I think that’s something we should pay attention to. So then I also wanted to mention about verse 48 as I said, there’s how much more we could draw out here. But I’m just going to mention these, these things verse 48 for instead of blessings ye by your own works, bring cursing wrath, indignation, and judgments upon your own heads by your follies and by all your abominations by all your abominations which you practice before me saith the Lord. Just have to make the obvious connection to Jacob 224. Behold, David and Solomon Tru truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me saith the Lord. So the abominations, they were practicing their follies and their abominations were a big part of the reason that they were rejected. And so um OK, so that there’s, there is a ton there, as I said, I hope people will go back and really research and study those scriptures. Um Even though it seems that the appoint of time may have passed, as I mentioned, work continued on the temple. And Joseph continued to teach the necessity of having a temple in order to reveal more from God. So he said this often that he could not reveal more. God could not reveal more until the temple was completed. For just one example, his July 16 80 1843 speech, when I talked about, I talked about that one, I think in part two of the novel Expositor, he spoke the entire morning and afternoon at the temple lot. And um he spoke about eternal marriage among other things. And he said, and this is from the recording of it, he said that he could not reveal the fullness of these things until the temple is completed. And so what’s so interesting there is he was talking about so many things. Eternal marriage said he couldn’t tell more until the temple was completed. And this was supposed to be four days after the polygamy revelation, right? That’s, that’s in that episode previously. So this the revelation itself made it completely clear that Joseph and Joseph repeated it several times that the temple needed to be completed before more could be revealed. So when we go forward and we claims of things happening in places other than the temple, we need to read them through this lens, right? Without the Finnish temple, the fullness of the priesthood which had been lost to them could not be restored. Their baptisms for the dead could not be accepted. The ordinances could not be revealed and they could not avoid being rejected as a church. If they were sufficiently dedicated and obedient to true doctrine, the spot would be consecrated and they would not be moved out of their, if not, they would bring their own covenant cursing upon their heads, being again driven again. We have to consider that in the context of what happened, they were driven from their place, they went to Utah, right? And they experienced

[01:08:49] all of the things that we talk about. I think in episode 31 where we talk about the great reformation and all of the horrors that happened both on the way and in Utah and that continued to happen until they finally gave up polygamy and things started to improve. So anyway, so that’s, that’s really important to understand. Even if the appointed time had not passed. It is important to know that the Nabu Temple was actually never finished. There is some controversy about that and I’m gonna sh talk about both sides. Joseph and Hiram were killed and the work on the temple continued, but it wasn’t finished from, from the best I can find and it seemed to not be blessed. There were many issues. So I’m gonna get into the question of finishing a little bit more later. But um let’s see, it, it was not even close to finished at the time of Joseph’s death. And the only thing that had was happening, there were baptisms for the dead in that unfinished basement with a makeshift roof. So as Brigham Young took over the church, he also took over construction of the temple. And you’ll see going forward, he also tried to take over ownership of it, which he wasn’t fully able to do so. It may have um it had been made repeatedly clear with every temple that God commanded the temples to be built. These are, these are from each revelation of the temple that we’ve gone over. God. God commanded them to be built like unto the pattern which I have given unto you. Um or some understood this saying as I read the house of God could not be built without a new revelation to give the pattern of its various apartments. And then again, um the other scriptures, but let a house be built unto my name according to the pattern which I will show unto them and of the navoo temple God had revealed and I will show unto my servant Joseph all things pertaining to this house. So this is an important piece that I want to get into. So Joseph had chosen a, an architect for this temple named William Weeks and he had worked very closely with him as he drew and um um finalized all of the plans for the temple. So several builders had submitted preliminary drawings for consideration and William Weeks told his family that quote, when he went in and presented his plans, Joseph Smith grabbed him and hugged him and said, you are the man I want. And that does sound very much like Joseph Smith. Joseph had to approve, he loved William’s drawings and they had a very close working relationship. Joseph had to approve every part of the plans as William completed them, sometimes they would have um butt heads a little bit and this is recorded in Joseph’s history. I instructed him in relation to the circular windows designed to light the offices of the dead in the dead works of the arch between stories. He said that round windows in the broad side of building of of a building were a violation of all the known rule, rules of architecture and contended that they should be semi circular, that the building was too low for round windows. I told him I would have circ I would have the circles if you had to make the um make the temple 10 ft higher than it was originally calculated that one light at the center of each circular window would be sufficient to light the whole room. And when the whole building was illuminated, the effect would be remarkably grand. I wish you to carry out my designs. I have seen envisioned the splendid appearance of that building illuminated and will have it built according to the pattern shown me. And so weeks reworked the plans according to Joseph’s specifications, and Joseph signed off on them. So this is the interesting part. I have to apologize for my stumbling reading. My eyes are starting to get old. So it’s starting to be a little bit harder for me to see it. So um in August 1844 President Young informed the church that quote the city of Navoo and the temple of our Lord to continue to be built up according to the pattern which has been commenced and which has progressed with such rapidity thus far. So this is when he came back into town after the martyrdom was starting to take over. And he’s saying we’re going to keep building the temple. So he just kind of assumed authority right from the beginning. Um Yet there immediately began to be problems and they appear apparently no longer wanted to follow the plans that William weeks had drawn and Joseph Smith had approved. So this gets really interesting. So Brigham Young took over the building of the temple and um there were contention, contentious meetings between the builders and the architects, just the different people involved. And Brigham Young solved the problem by assigning William Weeks and his family to leave NAVOO with the very first group heading out which effectively and officially removed him as the architect. And what’s even more interesting, Brigham didn’t ask to keep his plans. So William Le Weeks like that, this is, this is also sounds like Brigham Young has ways of doing things. If there was someone that was annoying him, he would just send them away or send them someone else. So William Weeks who Joseph had chosen as the architect typed up the temple, they had drawn up the plans together. William had done everything according to Joseph’s inspired specifications. Brigham Young was done with that sent William weeks away with his plans and he took over and didn’t meet the plans that Joseph had had built had approved apparently. And so um

[01:14:10] let’s see what else it says. Oh weeks, it it gets to be really fascinating. So weeks kept his plans and his Children passed them down until they gave them to the church in 1948. In a beautiful story. Of course, I I promise I will leak all of the sources below and this is first released. Sometimes I forget and do it a little bit later, but I won’t this time, William Weeks a bitch where he said he was not a follower of Brigham Young and did not believe in polygamy but was a great admirer of Joseph Smith. When Brigham Young became the head of the Mormon church. Mr weeks deserted them and went, went to Los Angeles. That’s where his family was in um San Bernardino and that’s why they gave the over. So anyway, that’s interesting. These are important things for us to understand. I think I know that now that the church has rebuilt the temple, the out the exterior is supposedly almost exactly the same except for the addition of the angel moroni, which we will talk about more in the next episode, temples and angels. And um but but the inside is completely different. It’s just built after one of modern temples that has very little of anything to do with Joseph’s original plans. So those are interesting things to know, right. Ok. So many things about the temple could have given the impression for anyone willing to see that, that, oh, about this temple, the navoo temple could have let people that were willing to see, know that it might not have been as blessed as they had hoped, accidents happen, things happen, you know. But there seemed to be quite a number of events that occurred that um if I, I think that if they went according to our narrative, we’d know much more about them and talk much more about them. Right? So there had been multiple large gathering. Oh, well, I just want to talk about this first thing. That happened. And um to set the stage, there had already been many large gatherings in the temple on um on temporary floors starting as early as 1842 when the temple walls were 4 ft high and a temporary floor was put in on the main story. About 3000 people gathered for the first official meeting held in the temple. And then conference was also held there many times and things had always held just fine. But on February 22nd, 1846 after the first group had left navoo, Brigham Young had already left, I believe on February 10th and then come back, William weeks had already been removed from his place and sent away and relieved of duty. Um Brigham Young had come back for a short time and a final meeting was held in the temple on the main floor assembly room where the floor had recently been completed. So you have to know they were feverishly working trying to get the temple. There were lots of reports of how. Um well, some people claim that the work was done and really hurriedly and hurriedly and maybe shoddily. But during the opening prayer, there was a very lo loud cracking sound and the floor suddenly dropped about an inch. So the two sources, the original sources that I found on this were both friendly sources that were trying to minimize it. So I wonder if it was actually even more extreme than that but if you are in the middle of a prayer and all of a sudden there’s a huge cracking sound and the floor falls that’s not supposed to happen. Right. That’s, that’s pretty interesting. And so, um, anyway, II, I can’t, I don’t know exactly what happened. I can’t find the information, but I do have a strong suspicion that if anything, it might have been understated, there were screams and chaos as the terrified people tried to get out of the crowded building in fear that the entire thing would come down on them, several people smashed windows to jump out. So I’m just trying to put myself in this situation if I were in a new building and it was crowded and all of a sudden there was a huge crack in the floor fell. I think that’s cause for some alarm, right? There might be some terror that’s floors in buildings are not supposed to crack and fall. So, um that I, I would also would hope that if this happened, the builder would be extremely, um, penitent would make sure everyone was ok, would sincerely apologize. Express concern all of that, right? But never went to apologize or acknowledge any possible fault. Brigham Young who by the way was not on the floor when it fell. He was up on the stand. He responded with disgust. The meeting was reconvened outside in a foot of snow and quoting from the journal article based on Brigham Young’s account. So Brigham recorded this in the church history and this is taken based on his account. This is um so I’ll include this journal article as well. It’s um written by David Crockett, I believe is his name, President Young, probably with much impatience in his voice, told the people that they could now jump up and down as much as they pleased. He told them that they should know better than to become so frightened just because the the floor of the temple settled a little so right. The gas lighting always the minimizing that’s not settling when buildings settle. It’s not with a huge crack and the floor falling. That’s bad design and danger, not just settling over time.

[01:19:10] So um this final sentence of Brigham’s account that he recorded in the church history was omitted, omitted from David Crockett’s paper. This is how it ended. One man who jumped out of the window, broke his arm and mashed his face, another broke his. So there were some pretty serious injuries. Both were apostates. So who who cares? They were both apostates. I looked it up and they actually were followers of Jacob String. So not actually apostates just didn’t believe Brigham Young was the right successor, believe Jacob String was and they had all worked on the temple every bit as much, right? The people who followed the different leaders and so, but they were stray eyes. So who cares that they got so injured? Also they only had a month or two, I think two months left to completely finish this massively unfinished temple. And now they had a bunch of broken windows. So I couldn’t, I also wasn’t able to find information about how if or how the smashed windows were replaced when they were already working with such a deadline that they weren’t going to be able to meet. So anyway, that’s, that’s one of the events that happened in the nut temple. And yet we also have at least one report of spiritual experiences at the temple. Um which which this the writer that I’ve been referring to. The the paper written by Crockett. I think he over generously describes as a night of Pentecost. I don’t think that it qualifies for that, but the report comes from Thomas Bullock’s journal, Sunday, March 15th, 1846 at Sundown went to the temple partook of the Sacrament and after which we had a most glorious time, some of the brethren spoke in tongues. Brother Coltrane and Brown held a talk in tongues which was afterward interpreted and confirmed some prophesized. Brother Anderson related a vision and all of us rejoiced with exceeding great gladness. A light was seen flickering above brother Anderson’s head while relating his vision, Phineas Richard’s face shown with brightness. Two men arrayed, all in priestly garments were seen in the northeast corner of the room. The power of the holy ghost rested down upon us. I arose full of the spirit and spoke with great animation which was very cheerfully responded to by all and prophesized of things to come. A brother testified that our meeting was accepted of God and we continued our meeting until after midnight, which which was the most profitable, happy and glorious meeting I have ever attended in my life and made the need to and, and, and made the remem the remembrance be deeply rooted in myself for ever and ever beautiful day. So this, I think was actually an important part to include I had read it, but then I hadn’t thought about it and hadn’t included it. And just last night as I was trying to, well, I was asleep, I was, I felt suddenly jerked awake and this came right to my mind with the strong impression and urgency that I needed to go find it, look it up and find it and include it in, um, in this episode which I find, I don’t know, I find that to be interesting and actually it kind of goes along with some of the answers I feel I have had that this could be overstated. We could write it off. Right. But I don’t necessarily think, I don’t think we should just do that too lightly. It confirms an answer I feel I have received about this topic and I don’t want to spoil it because I’m gonna talk about it more in part two. But in short, I do believe that God honors the genuine faith and sacrifice of his people and of his people who build temples regardless of what the problems might be with the temples. I don’t think that the individual people are held accountable by the problems of their leaders necessarily, right. So I know that many of us have had spiritual outpourings in temples. And I think that those are valid. And so if these things and maybe they were described differently in their time, but they experience, maybe they experience these things and that’s something we should pay attention to. So even though the Nabu temple perhaps had plenty of problems, maybe faith was still honored there for the the sincere faithful people. I don’t know that’s, it’s something to think about. So anyway, OK, so a couple of other things I find interesting about this temple that this temple, the the Nabu temple, the final temple dedication, there had been many, I don’t think any temple has been dedicated nearly as many times as the NAV temple was. There were so many partial temple dedications, but the final dedication before the very last group was leaving, um was marketed and advertised to the public in order to sell tickets, I believe it was held on May 1st. I I’m I’m not recalling it. I didn’t write it down, so I’ll get that date if it’s different.

[01:23:49] But based on our understanding today, we might think that what, what would give you admission to a temple dedication would be a temple recommend, right? And maybe a part of your area or something like like being in the region. But you basically need a temple recommend to go but not for the navoo um temple dedication. So it was being dedicated as a temple, but there was no um recommend required, but you had to buy a $1 ticket. Every single person needed a $1 ticket. I put that in a conservative um inflation calculator. And on a conservative note, that would be more than $35 per ticket in today’s money. So those even those who had donated all of the supplies for the temple and who had sacrificed and stayed to build it and work on it, they had to buy a ticket. And in fact, I think it was mainly attended by people who were not followers of Brigham Young because most of them had left by now. And so that was, that’s interesting. There was a lot of effort to profit to try to profit from the temple and we’ll talk about that more going forward as well. So another thing to understand about the Nabu temple is whether or not it was completed as I already alluded to, this is a critical element. These people thought it was extremely important based on their understanding of section 124 verse 32 which says at the end of the appointed time that they would be rejected. As a church with their dead, they interpreted that to be of central importance. And the question wasn’t, did they finish in the appointed, appointed time within the appointed time? The question was, did they finish at all that beca became extremely important in these discussions? And so um they were, let’s see, we’re gonna try and trace the timeline to see what, what this tells, what we can find out about this. So our common L DS narrative, it printed all over in our histories and manuals is that the temple was completed. For one example, this paper that I’m reading from the Mormon historical studies written by David Crocodile and get below. It has a section called the temple is completed and it, it, this is the last sentence in that section back in Navoo on April on 29th of April 1846. The temple was finally completed with an exclamation point. A group of temple construction workers met with their wives in the attic of the temple and had a feast of cakes, pies and other items to celebrate the event. They enjoyed themselves while participating in prayer, preaching and blessing Children until midnight. So an interesting thing, there’s no footnote, given whatever, there’s no reference for this account. So I can’t check it and really, you can’t claim an event like this with any credibility without providing a reference so that we can, there’s a way to at least back up those claims. So it’s interesting how this seems to be kind of the, the way that it happens, right? So the saints and leaders understood the implications how they interpreted them of whether or not the temple was finished. Orson Hyde had been assigned to stay in NAVOO to oversee the completion of the temple. He was the one apostle there representing all of the leaders until elder, until Wilfred Woodruff returned to NAVOO from his mission in time to record Orson Hyde’s final Nabu sermon. So this was Sunday, May 3rd. So yes, that final dedication with the dollar tickets was May 1st. This was Sunday May 3rd. And it was the last sermon in Nabu, I believe 1846 as respects the finishing of that. This is a that same paper under the um topic of why the temple was finished as respects the finishing of this house. I will ask why we have labor to complete it when we were not expecting to stay. If we moved forward and finish this house, we should be received and accepted as a church with our dead. But if not, we should be rejected with our dead. These things have inspired and stimulated us to action in the finishing of it which through which through the blessing of God, we have been enabled to accomplish and prepared it for dedication in doing this. We have only been saved as it were by the skin of our teeth, the enemy prophesized. We should not get the roof on that the enemy they’re talking about. There is Sydney rigged and there are other references to Sydney said we wouldn’t get the roof on. So now those people are the enemy, right? But we have finished it. And on Thursday night, we met in this temple prayed in our white robes and dedicated unto God. And truly, an interesting season was season was enjoyed. So this is a really interesting question. So you can see that Orson Hyde is claiming that they, they barely finished it by the skin of their teeth, but they finished it right. And, and he’s saying this is why it was important to do it. And it is, it is interesting that when they were, were knew that they were planning to leave.

[01:28:24] Brigham thought that they weren’t going to leave until the spring, but he ended up leaving in February, I believe because he was wanted on um counterfeiting charges. But at least that’s what I’ve read. So, so he left even sooner than he meant to. And so it is interesting that they finished the temple. They really believed that they didn’t, they didn’t get the part about the appointed time. They really believed it was just about finishing it. They also didn’t get the point about not being moved out of their place, right? They were committed to finishing it based on their interpretation and that is a lot of faith and dedication to do that to work that hard, spend that much, put, put that many resources towards something that you’re going to be leaving, right? So Wilfred Woodruff spoke next and he backed up what elder Hyde had said. He said, the saints have labored faithfully and finished the temple and were not and were now received as a church with our dead. This is glory enough for building the temple and thousands of the saints have received their endowment in it and the light will not go out. So that’s what they at at least claimed to believe or genuinely believed. And so it’s problematic though, because there are conflicting claims that say that the temple was not finished. So we’re going to look at some of those now. And so um January 15th, 1846 well, all of this is 1846. So that was on May 3rd, right. January 15th. This was printed at the Times and seasons. This was a month before the ill fated floor breaking meeting January thus far has been mild which in the midst of our preparations for an exodus. Next exodus next spring has given an excellent time to finish the temple. Nothing has a has appeared so much like a finish of that holy edifice as the present, the attic story was finished in December. And if the Lord continues to favor us, the first story above the basement will be completed, ready for meeting in the month of February. So they have the meeting, the February wasn’t ready. The floor standing upon 12 stone oxen or the font standing upon 12 stone oxen is about ready and the floor of the second story is late. So that all speculation about the temple of God at navoo must cease. So we’re making good progress. But reading this lets us know how far it was from being finished actually, right? They had a lot of work to do and just a month or a couple of months to finish it. So um a series of this is from that, that article, a series of private dedications were held as portions of the nut temple were completed, the attic rooms for ordinance work on November 30th 1845 the ceiling altar on January 7th, 1846 and the temple thus far completed on February 8th 1846. So you can see how many different dedications they had. Now that’s not even all of them. There were some, there were others as well. And um just before Brigham Brigham left in a hurry being chased out of navoo because of counterfeiting the allegations of counterfeiting to go to the West. Brigham Young recorded I met with the council of the 12 in the southeast corner room of the attic of the temple. We knelt around the altar and dedicated the building to the most high we asked his blessing upon our attended move to the west. Also asked him to enable us some day to finish the temple some day to finish the temple. This is after he had already done all of the endowments that he was going to do no more were done after he left and all of the ceilings that he was going to do. And he was asked so they were using the temple before it was finished before it was dedicated. But they want anyway, it was, it was confusing right. There were a lot of timelines over overrunning each other and um that he might enable us to someday to finish the temple and dedicate it to him and we would leave it in his hands to do as he pleased. So it’s interesting because Brigham did often seem less, less dedicated to the idea that the temple needed to be finished than the others less dedicated to finishing it or to claiming it was finished because he made several statements in later years that are really important in this discussion. So February 14th, 1853 he said we shall attempt to build a temple to the name of, of our God. This has been attempted several times, but we have never yet had the privilege of completing and enjoying one. So that’s interesting. August 31st, 1856 here, let me ask the old saints a question. Have you ever seen a temple finished since this church commenced? You have not, this was his narrative going forward forever. January 1st 1877. It is true. We left brethren there with the instructions to finish it and they got it nearly completed before it was burned. But the Saints did not enjoy it. So they got it nearly finished. And then April 22nd, 1877 I have been spending the winter in Saint George. Our temple there is finished, which is the first completed temple built to the name of the most high in which the ordinances for the living and the dead can be performed since the one built by Solomon in the land of Jerusalem that we have any knowledge of. So the first temple since Solomon that ordinances can be done in. And so I, I have a question as I read these, it’s clear he was referring to the Nabu

[01:33:27] temple and making it very clear that it was never finished, which is in it, it conflicts with the testimonies of Hyde and Woodruff. But you can see how motivated they were to claim that it was done, right? And Brigham Young says, no, it wasn’t done but, but the Kan Temple was done. And so I haven’t made sense of why he doesn’t count that. You know, it’s, it’s interesting, I wonder if Brigham almost has a narrative that he was the first one to complete a temple that Joseph didn’t because that would go along with some of the things that he seemed to do. He’s clearly referring to the Nabu temple. But um or it could be that he didn’t count the Kirtland temple because it wasn’t the temple after his, after his design and his style. I, I don’t know, I would love to hear if anyone has any thoughts or insights, share them with me because I is interesting. But he does seem to make it clear that at least from his perspective, the Nabu Temple was never finished. And so Parley p Pratt 1888 autobiography agrees. I’ll just read this one in part. We continued our work on the on the temple, the Nabu temple, a portion of which was finished and dedicated. So he also acknowledges that it wasn’t finished. So people I guess just need to choose between these conflicting accounts. There is evidence that it, it makes it seem unlikely that the temple was completed just based on the timelines, right? Um Including this statement from this apologetic paper I’ve been reading from that also has no reference just like the other statement about the workmen gathering because they had completed the temple. This says April 23rd, 18 4 on April 23rd, 1846. So this was one week before the tickets, right? This was the last chance they had. It says the carpenters working on the Nabu Temple reported to the superintendent Truman angel that they had completed their work, they swept away their shavings and cleaned up their tools, the painters and masons still had much work left. So again, this is one week before the final, final day, they were already selling tickets and there’s no reference for it to even know if the carpenters had finished their work. But that is an entire temple. And there was still, um I was gonna say Masonic Masonic work. That’s a funny, funny in this context, the masons still had work to do. I think it means the stonemasons, right? And the painters had to paint the entire thing less than a week before the final public dedication. So I don’t know exactly how that was supposed to work. But still Orson Hyde and Wilfred Woodruff claim it was finished, which also is the commonly accepted church narrative, which is interesting that again, the church narrative ignores everything Brigham Young said and contradicts Brigham Young but just pretends he never said it right. So that’s the church narrative we have, we can’t have a consistent narrative that all of our leaders agree with. So just more of those problems. So um Brigham Young Parley B Pratt. So those are the ones that say it was finished. Brigham Young Parley B Pratt and many other witnesses claim it was not finished. So um I’m going to talk about a paper coming forward that talks about the the temple being burned. This is what it says. It was still unfinished, the roof when the Mormons left Nabu for far West in 1846 despite a hurried effort to make do and use it anyway. So that’s what some other, some other sources say. So people just need to decide which seems more credible to them, right? Which makes more sense to them. But beyond that, again, as I said before, we need to decide if that question even really matters as much as we claim it does because even if the temple was finished, which would make Brigham Young either uh this uninformed or lying about it, right? If we claim it was finished, then we disagree with Brigham Young. Even if it was finished, it was clearly not finished in the sufficient time appointed and they did not receive those blessings. They quite clearly received the cursing because of the abominations among other things. And so, so that’s the more important part because they pollute my holy grounds and my holy ordinances and charters and my holy words which I give unto them. And because they build a house unto my name and do not do the things that I say ye by your own works, bring cursing, wrath, indignation, and judgments upon your own head by your follies and by all your abominations which you practice before me, the Lord. So that’s the reality. The question of whether it was finished or not, maybe isn’t as important as the rest of this. So it’s a bit hard to claim that they qualified by the measurement of section 124. Despite how finished the temple may or may not have been and so these are things I think it’s useful for us to actually read and pay attention to. I think in general we just kind of do um some thought stopping like if we happen upon those scriptures and start thinking about them, we’re like, oh, well, I guess it, it must make sense somehow, right? I think it’s better if we actually think about it. So, ok, now I’m going to go on and talk about the temple after the saints left. I mentioned how they sold tickets. I think we could, we could look at it that they were trying to compensate

[01:38:36] from some of what they had put into the temple, maybe if we wanted to generous. So another way they were trying to compensate with the temple was the the entire time the temple was being finished. Brigham Young was engaged in efforts to try to sell it. He was working almost as hard to try to sell the temple as the people were working to try to finish the temple. So he actually started his efforts in 1846. I mean, 1845 he was trying to sell it in 1845. That’s before it was even finished to the point that they could do their um ceilings and the endowments that he did. He had already been trying to sell it before that point before it was finished enough even to dedicate it to that point to do that. It was kind of dedicated in stages and used unfinished. It was a very interesting story. But so he worked for, for a long time trying to sell it, which is interesting because it wasn’t his to sell, which was one of the reasons he was unsuccessful. So there were, he was trying to sell it to the, to the Catholics was the main people that he was trying to make a deal with. But one of their deals fell through, they would have um leased it, I believe or rented it however, that worked for him. But they didn’t want to pay to carry insurance on it. And so he refused to, he refused to do a deal if they wouldn’t pay for insurance, which is interesting as we, we will go forward. So let’s see. Um we, we’ll talk a little bit more. I’ll just go into again, the ceilings by proxy that were done in this unfinished temple because that is such an interesting point. But after three years of frustrating attempts to sell the temple, which all failed because of this title problem because Jacob String was the other lead. He led the second largest break off right after Brigham Young’s break off and he made claims that it wasn’t Brigham’s temple to sell, which it seems to me to be true. His followers had worked on it just as much as Brigham Young’s followers had. I, I think, I mean, maybe there were more of Brigham’s but still, it doesn’t seem like he could just take it. And so, um he claimed, claimed to be the legitimate successor of Joseph Smith and his church, as far as I understand, it planned to utilize the temple and they didn’t want it sold. And um so that had actually been massively frustrating for Brigham Young. And after multiple statements of that Brigham Young made wishing the temple would burn down on October 9th, 1848 it finally did burn down, which ended his attempts to sell it. So there’s a great article with what seems to me to be very compelling evidence that it could have actually been Brigham Young himself who ordered the temple to be burned. So I’ll just share a couple of things from that article and then of course, it will be linked below. But um the building had known, well, Brigham Young knew that the building had structural problems. So we’ve already talked about the, the terrible day when the floor broke in the February meeting. But two months, even before that, he wrote, we shall not be able to have another public meeting here on account of the weight of weight on the floor. It has already caused the walls to crack, prevents the doors from shutting and will injure the roof. So we had already said that. So that makes it even more interesting that he claims that the floor breaking was due only to settling when he knew that it had a lot of problems. And um even when a building, when a building settles, it shouldn’t make it. So you can’t open and close doors and the walls crack in the roof breaks. Right. That’s not good. And so, um Brigham also, I mentioned how he insisted that the whoever would lease or rent with the building would have insurance on it. It’s interesting because going forward, he actually multiple times preached strongly against insurance. And I’ll read this one example when he basically say says that insurance is only useful if you are planning arson, which is interesting. He said I have about as many buildings as anyone in this territory. This is when they were in Utah and I have never yet paid a dollar to insure one of them or any of my property or myself. Some Mormons it says will get their buildings insured as high as possible and then they will accidentally take fire on purpose. So again, the idea that insurance is only good if there’s arson, right? And so that does make the insistence on N in the N and temple being insured interesting. And so, um anyway, since he couldn’t sell it, and he did not want to see Jacob strang gain possession of it or his followers who he considered apostates and enemies. And he had no good feelings for the residents of navoo, including Emma and, and her family who I think were some of the main victims in this Brigham Young and his church had nothing to lose by its destruction. So this was reported in the Keokuk register every good citizen will condemn this act of the incendiary incendiary as one of the grossest barbarism. It’s fi it’s destruction has inflicted no material injury on the mormons to the surrounding country. It will be a serious loss. The citizens on both sides of the river reprobate the act as wanton and malicious in the extreme.

[01:43:37] So the people there in um Illinois surrounding Navoo didn’t want to see a burned ruin where this beautiful temple had been. It was universally believed to be extremely beautiful. And so just after Brigham Young had given his final speech before leaving Nabu, this is very interesting. They had stopped doing so they’d already stopped doing endowments, they’d stopped doing any ceilings. The furnishings had all been removed from the temple and I wanted to know what happened to those furnishings because it is interesting how beautifully furnished Brigham’s offices and homes were in Utah. So that’s, that’s a question I have. But anyway, they’d already been removed from the temple. The temple did catch fire. And from what I understand, Brigham was in his office instead of in the temple when he would have usually been in the temple. And his office was situated where he should have seen the fire very first. But it wasn’t until the alarm was set out in the general public that the Saints worked feverishly to put the fire fire out from their records. They were genuinely, they genuinely feared that it would burn to the ground. But Brigham stayed in his office and said he couldn’t get there in time to help. And he wrote, if it is the will of the Lord that the temple be burned instead of being defiled by the gentiles, amen to it. So that’s what he wrote instead of going out to help. That’s interesting. He later said I would rather see it burned to the ground than go into the hands of devils. That’s again, Jacob Strang and his followers or perhaps Emma and her family. I was thankful to see the temple. I was thankful to see the temple on fire. When I saw the flames, I said, Good father, if you want it to be burned up, I hope if you want it to be burned up, I hoped to see it burned before I left. But I did not so pretty telling, right. And so then in addition, after learning that it had burned, he expressed similar sentiments on multiple occasions. Here are just a few examples when we heard that it was burned, we were glad of it. He also said, I was glad when I heard of it, of its being destroyed by fire and of the walls having fallen in. And he said, hell, you cannot, you cannot now occupy it. And so again, he meant the people living in navoo and the followers of Jacob string. There were no moers that were trying to take possession of the temple. Um Again, he said I would rather it should be thus destroyed than remain in the hands of the wicked. And at least one other leader expressed the same sentiments. This was George Buchanan. I am glad it is destroyed. I am glad that it was burned and purified by fire from the pollution our enemies inflicted upon it. And I am glad there is nothing of it left to pass into the hands of our enemies and be defiled by them. So again, hard to um you, you know, motive is definitely there. So this was also, this was a pattern that Brigham did demonstrate. This would not have been the only time when the Saints left winter quarters in Nebraska, they’re gathering where they had gone after NAVOO, he had them set fire to the entire town, the Tabernacle and all of the homes when they left to go to Salt Lake. And so then also in Salt Lake, when Johnston’s army was threatening to return, this is a quote, there were many quotes and um that were written down and recorded of different things he said. But here’s one of them, I have told you that if there is any man or woman that is not willing to destroy anything and everything of their property, that would be of any use to the enemy. If left, I wanted them to go out of the territory. And I again say so today for when the time comes to burn and lay waste to our improvements. If any man undertakes to shield his, he will be sheared down. And this was in a scary time when that could have been literal before I will suffer. What I have in times gone by. There shall not be one building nor 1 ft of lumber, nor nor a stick, nor a tree, nor a particle of grass and hay that that will burn left in reach of our enemy. I am sworn if driven to extremity to lay utter waste, to utterly lay waste in the name of Israel’s God. And there were people that there are reports that people had straw built up all around and inside their homes ready to light them on fire when the word came. So while people are working desperately to finish it, Brigham was working desperately to try to sell it. And when he couldn’t, that I didn’t report some of his massive frustration, some of the things he said, he damned people to hell. He was very angry. And so there is a genuine possibility that he had it, that he ordered it burned, although they later tried to blame it, blame it on the mob, which seemed to be in the pattern. But that made no sense at all. There was no mob present since the Mormons had left and the people who had made up the mob, the citizens, right, actually really liked the building. And so, um so that’s an interesting thing. But then speaking as I did before of like symbols that we would, you know,

[01:48:26] take um note of if they played to our desired narrative a year and a half later in what seems like quite an important symbolic event, maybe even we could call it an act of God. Uh Again, at least if it told the story, we wanted it to tell. I think that’s what we would do. But this was May 27th, 1850 a tornado struck the temple site. So it was reported in several newspapers. Here’s one newspaper account, this frightful hurricane, the most terrible experience in the country in many years burst suddenly on the hill of nav, there were lightnings, thunder, wind and hail and rain. It seemed to um seemed united to assail the building. The storm bur bur burst forth so quickly. And with such violence that the eight masons working inside it and overtaken unawares in the temple had not time to flee before the northern wall, 60 ft high bent over their heads threatening to crush and bury them up and you can read their account of it as well. They were just in their working. Another religion had bought the um temple. I can’t remember what they were called but they were trying to put a kitchen in the basement. There were eight there were several masons working there and the storm came out of the blue and they didn’t know what to do and they tried to hide and then they saw anyway, they had to all just dive for, to, to, to escape the wall falling down on them. It was pretty terrifying. I didn’t see that any of them were, were killed. But, um, anyway, pretty serious event. Right. So that’s what happened to the Nabu temple again. We all need to make our own meaning out of it. If, um, if it’s just nothing, if it’s just coincidence or if there’s some something there and maybe, you know, different people can interpret it different ways, but I think it’s at least worth paying attention to. So the pile of rubble was used to build other buildings and other homes in Navoo until Joseph Smith the third said there was no trace of where the temple had once stood. And really in thinking about all of this in the temple being burned, which I happen to believe the evidence points to Brigham Young. Um, ordering that I just can’t help but think of Lucy and Emma and her Children and they were there in Navoo and, you know, in the place that their husband and father had given his life to build and then the temple goes up in flames. I just think, uh, it was a tragedy, like the newspaper said, it’s a tragedy for all of the, the entire area. But for that family, how much they had already lost and then just out of, almost out of spite to have the temple burned, it just seems, um, it seems pretty hard and pretty harsh and I don’t in general, I do not like the way that Brigand young treated Emma Smith and her family. And this to me is just one more piece of that. That’s just so cruel. So, anyway, ok. and I said I was gonna just quickly again mention the proxy ceilings. I know I’ve talked about this before, but I feel like I want to make the point again because we are talking about the Nabu temple. It was never finished. It was dedicated piece meal. Then they started doing this work in it and they did all of Joseph’s ceilings to all of his wives by proxy in this unfinished temple. I again, just there are so many problems with this, that piece right there alone should tell us that Joseph had no part in this because if Joseph was performing ceilings and sealing people together and sealing women to himself as wives, why would those need to be repeated? There’s absolutely no case you can make of why Joseph’s ceilings would need to be repeated. And I’ve heard people say because they needed to be done in the temple. Again, the temple was not finished, the temple was not officially dedicated. And if they needed to be done in the temple as Joseph had repeatedly, he could not reveal more until the temple was completed. He would not have been doing them outside of the temple. None of it makes any sense. Sense. It all just completely falls apart in so many ways. And the excuse that, well, polygamy was so super secret that it couldn’t, that all falls apart in, in this as well. This this um them doing these proxy ceilings exposes that lie because the mob pressure was actually more intense at this point. There was more involvement. Remember Brigham Young had to flee way earlier than he planned to. And um so there was no way that we can say, well, Joseph couldn’t keep any records because the mob and yet Brigham and the others were doing this out in the open and keeping records of it, right? It does not work. It doesn’t make sense in any way. So that piece alone, the na temple ceilings alone should tell us what to tell us the truth about Joseph Smith versus Brigham Young. So and then um there’s one point that I really do want to talk about just in closing as we’re getting ready to end. But that’s the idea of the chur church being rejected with its dead. I I think that I think it’s too easy to be black, too black and white with these things. It’s all or nothing, right? So I want us to think about also what it means to be rejected for the church to be rejected? Does that mean that, um, like if we’re rejected, does that mean we’re no longer Children of God or that we are no

[01:53:41] longer able to feel the spirit or discern truth or to choose the? Right. Right. Like what, what exactly does rejected mean? I think it’s a question we each need to ask and answer for ourselves. Does it mean, does being rejected mean that we’re fully ripened in iniquity? So there’s no chance of repentance and we are only worthy of destruction or? Yeah, does it mean that we’re no longer able to repent and, and um partake of the atonement or have a testimony of Jesus Christ, right? Like I think that we always look at these things in such black and white terms. Like when we say that the, the something went into apostasy, the great apostasy. Well, well, even if we believe in the idea of the great apostasy, they were still proclaiming Jesus Christ, they were still producing the scriptures, they were still keeping society, right? The, the church served its purpose. So I think that same, we need to look at ourselves in that same critical, critically thinking way to understand what it might mean to be rejected with our debt. I have my personal interpretation, which I think is a better explanation than any of these other things. And I think it just means that we lost the opportunity to qualify for the blessings that we had been promised if we would qualify for them, right? Like the Lord promised us things and wanted to accomplish things through this church. And then it became clear that those things were not going to be accomplished through this church. So that, that’s what I think it means. And I think that that’s backed up in scripture. This actually shouldn’t be this shocking of an idea to us because it’s just a restatement of things that are found had been said and stated and written multiple times in our scripture. So just a couple of examples, three Nephi, a third Nephi 26 9 and when they shall receive this, which is expedient that they should have first to try their faith. And if it shall so be that they shall believe these things, then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them. And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them unto their condemnation, right? I think that the church, the establishment we had, we were given the book of Mormon, which is that first portion, that lesser portion, right? And I think that qualifying would mean that we would receive the greater portion and being rejected means meant that we wouldn’t receive that greater portion, which all of us should be wondering why that hasn’t been received, right? We we, I I just don’t know how we completely ignore this. Um This verse of scripture. It’s critically important. Again, we have doctrine covenant 84 starting in verse 54. And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief and because you have treated lightly the things you have received, which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. It’s really saying the same thing. The book of Mormon is the main thing we had received. And this condemnation rested upon the Children of Zion. Even all they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent. And remember the new covenant, even the book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them not only to say but to do according to that which I have written that they may bring forth fruit meet for their father’s kingdom. Otherwise there remain at a scourge and a judgment to be poured out upon the Children of Zion. See, all of these things are already said and I believe that’s so much a part of what we are hopefully engaged in with this podcast and with the things that hopefully all of us are studying and learning. There is this powerful of experience of repentance that so many people have experienced. I my husband shared his experience and I’ve heard from so many other people when we are willing to open our hearts to say God, maybe this idea is wrong. And even though that shakes my whole worldview, and I don’t know what to do with it. I, I will repent for believing that this is who you, who you are. And that really does open the windows of heaven to have so much more spirit and inspiration and revelation poured out upon us. We can’t be taught more truth until we will acknowledge the things that I love. Mark Twain. It ain’t the things I um it’s ain’t the things I don’t know that got me into trouble. It’s all the things I know for that. I know. Sure that just ain’t so I butchered that, but that’s really the truth of the matter. And so that’s what I think it means to be rejected. I think also it gives us clarity for, um, for what we should do and where we should go from here, that’s a big part of the answers I received that I’m going to share in part two, but just quickly here, a couple of things to go over. I think it’s important to recognize that being rejected with our dead doesn’t mean we’re finished. Doesn’t mean it’s too late, right? We are told repeatedly that as soon as we turn to God, as soon as we are willing to repent. God is right there to meet us. I love Mosiah 2638. And as often as my people repent will I forgive them, their trespasses against me. And so this shouldn’t cause us this much consternation. It should show us the opportunity that we have. If we are willing to take it. And it also gives me this beautiful new way to understand the repeat the repeated passage.

[01:59:01] And it’s both in second Nephi 19 and in Isaiah nine, when the Lord is talking about, I have done all of these cursing and cursing and cursing. And then it says for all this, his anger is not yet away, it is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still still. And I think I always used to read that as in his hand of destruction, his anger is not turned away, but his hand of destruction is still aimed out. And I see it so differently now, especially in this context, his anger is not turned away, but his hand is always stretched out. It’s always stretched out ready to receive us, ready to accept us, ready to embrace us. The second we will turn and begin to repent. And I think that that’s really what the calling is for us to do with this information is to just open our hearts and be willing to say, Lord, what would help me do? And you know, please forgive me for my hardheartedness and believing these wrong ideas and not accepting that there could be something different. And so, or, or, and, and I do think again, the critical question, I know when I was talking to my sweet mom about all of these things and she was like, you know, just kind of feeling that panic and I do just anyone that might be beginning to feel any of that, just please pay, pray for peace and for patience and for direction and just let’s begin on this path together and the answers will come. I know how many I’ve received just in my short time of, well, it’s not been a short time but just getting this first already. I that has been just a week and I’ve had a tremendous amount of outpouring of direction of what I should do. So I believe that that is what God is wanting to do with us. And so we’ve covered the history of temples in scripture and in Kirtland and Navoo. But now we need, we have a lot more to cover, we need to cover more about the history of temple work. And um where did we get the endowment and the other ordinances? What were they doing in the Navoo temple? And where did that come from? Did the ordinances that they were doing come from Joseph Smith? And in any case, what should we do? So those are some of the things we’re going to talk about in part two that I’m looking forward to next week will be our rather difficult es episode on sr a going a little bit more in detail there. So again, I will ask people to be prayerful about listening to that up that episode. And then we should have the next part on temples I’m hoping I can finish it in one more part. If not, we’ll have a third part. That’s just how we do it. So, anyway, thank you again so much for joining me and on this grand adventure of life and learning and truth and I will see you next time.