54: Joseph wasn't a polygamist! | 132 Problems Episode: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

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Isn’t one wife enough? : Young, Kimball, 1893-1972 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
George Q Cannon quote: Oct 9, 1869, JoD 13:pg 207

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to this very special celebration episode of 132 Problems revisiting Mormon polygamy. This is episode 54, which also happens to be the one year anniversary of this podcast. Yay! It’s also being being recorded just a day before Valentine’s Day and will be released one day before my birthday, so it’s celebrations all around. But the reason I’m so glad you’re here isn’t even about all of the celebrations. It’s because of the information. That I get to share with you today. This is an incredibly important episode. So I really hope that you will tune in and share this episode widely with your friends and family members on social media because this information is so important. So if you aren’t aren’t Already subscribed, please also go ahead and subscribe and join in the comments so that this episode can get as much momentum as possible because I think it really is important. So thank you so much for joining us as we take this deep dive into the somewhat less murky waters of Joseph’s polygamy. When I felt so strongly inspired to start this podcast a year ago and was told it is time, I didn’t even put together for myself that it was Valentine’s Day. My first episode was released one day away from Valentine’s Day. And today though, that is really hitting me hard because I’m realizing how profound that is because really the theme of this podcast is all about the sacred beauty and importance of what God established in marriage between one man and one woman. And that really is what we celebrate on Valentine’s Day. I have to acknowledge, I know that there are listeners who have a hard time when um I talk about marriage if they’re if they are struggling in their marriage or if they are single or the same way that people have a hard time when we talk about. Motherhood or parenthood when they don’t have children, I recognize that. I see you, I hear you, I know. I just, and I know you just had to go through Valentine’s Day, and I don’t want to rub salt to the wound. I just want to all join in the celebration of what God ordained, what God created, ordained and commanded regardless of what whatever situations we’re in. So as I said, I’ve got I’m doing it all upright. You will see that I have carnations, which are the One year anniversary flower. I have my anniversary balloons and my birthday balloons. My carnations are in Valentine’s colors, so we’re totally doing it upright. I’m also wearing my tiara, which I will lose very soon because, well, right now, cause it’s really annoying and not my style. So we’re gonna get into this. First, I have to make a confession, an acknowledgement. I was wrong. I Two weeks ago sat through it um I had the privilege of interviewing Whitney Horning, and I sat and told her what I’ve told many people before that I didn’t think we could prove whether or not Joseph was a polygamist. I thoroughly believed that. In fact, I’ve gone through a whole progression of believing Joseph was involved to some extent to now today. I think we can prove that Joseph wasn’t a polygamist. I think I was wrong. I, I will tell you the story. I will give you the evidence. That’s why this episode is so important. I do want to clarify, I still believe the whole point of this podcast started out to prove what God ordained, and that is the more important question, regardless of what Joseph Smith may or may not have done. But as always, I care about truth and I am following. The evidence, the best knowledge I can, and finding the truth of that, and

[00:03:49] the truth is pointing me solidly to believe that Joseph Smith was not the originator of polygamist polygamy and was not a polygamist, but he did indeed fight it. So I know that’s an audacious claim. We are going to get into it. So let me start back the day that I was preparing for the Todd Compton interview, which actually That interview is on one side of my one year anniversary, and this um podcast is on the other other side, and I’m so happy about that because I loved that interview with Todd Compton. I’m actually super proud of it, and I think it’s a really important um bit to add to the the discussion on this topic and so I’m hap I was so happy to be able to speak to him. It was while I was preparing for that interview that I had. An epiphany that really threw me for a loop, and then that very morning I was led to a scripture that That just knocked my socks off. I, I could not believe I hadn’t seen it before. I, the scriptures are where, where I go for truth, right? That’s what this whole podcast is about is the scriptural and theological case for plural marriage, and it was, I guess I just hadn’t been prepared to see it before, but I went to the scriptures, found something that I, I just was like. Joseph wasn’t a polygamist. Oh my word! Joseph wasn’t a polygamist. I’ve spent this whole week on the phone with my mom, my sisters, my girlfriends, some of them the most like completely um confident and convinced that Joseph was a polygamist, and as we talked about this, they all were like. OK, OK, you know, it’s starting to make some dents. So I know you can’t prove anything to people that aren’t open to evidence, right? People who are just going to put their blinders on and believe dogmatically what they’re going to dogmatically believe no matter what that means. You, you know, some of my some of my stock. out there and trolls. I see you. I’m not expecting, you know, this is only a discussion for the honest seekers of truth and light and knowledge. And so that’s who I’m hoping that this will be useful to, and I hope that who I hope you’ll share with. So, OK, we are going to the scriptures to doctrine and covenants. The thing I was led to, I started thinking about records and I went ahead and looked up records and was led immediately to Doctrine and Covenants section 128. If any of you have already put this together, then you should have told me cause I’ve never seen it and I haven’t found it anywhere else. This, I think this is brand new information and I’m just floored by it. So we are going to go to Doctrine Covenants 128. That’s So we’re gonna start our discussion. This is going to be a long episode. Feel free to take it in segments. Feel free to relisten to parts, and feel free to like, you know, send different parts of it to people that you think will be interesting to them because there is a lot of information we’re going to cover here. I’m going to share with you my paradigm, what I have seen and why I believe what I believe and why I feel like I I,

[00:06:54] I kept having just profound confirmations from the Lord that Joseph wasn’t a polygamist over these past several months. I, like I said, I started out this podcast believing he was involved to some degree, but that wasn’t the important question. But as I’ve gone on, the Lord has really continually Let me see, or showed me through dreams through experiences that Joseph wasn’t a polygamist, but I just wasn’t comfortable with that because I don’t like going into a discussion and saying, well, the Lord has, you know, I firmly believe I have a testimony that I like being able to say, look at this, this is why. You know, I am fine knowing something because the Lord told me, but I want to have evidence to present to people, if at all possible. And that’s what I’ve received this week. So that’s what we’re going to go to. OK. So when, when, when you start talking about Doctrine Covenants 128, you have to also include 127 because they go together. So a little bit of history. Um, these were actually the last two revelations, letters, revelations that Joseph received that were included in the 1844 Doctrine and Covenant. So you’ll remember there was the 1835 doctrine and Covenants, right? That was the first one printed. There was the Book of Commandments before that that we only have portions of because it was destroyed, but the doctrine and Covenants was first printed in 1835, which included section 101, the article on marriage, which Very clearly we’re going to talk about that a little bit. testifies only of monogamy that that’s God’s law and the law of the church. Then there was another Doctrine of Covenant prepared in 1844 that Joseph Smith oversaw the complete preparation of this. It was published just after his death. The only thing added to it was what is now Section 135, which was, um, we, we attribute it to John Taylor. It was his statement about the martyrdom of Joseph. Hirum. So what we have now as 17128, 127 at 128 are the last two revelations of Joseph Smith that were included in the doctrine of Covenants, and they were both given in September of 1842. Joseph had, again, they were, they were chasing him, they had arrested him, but they didn’t have the correct paperwork, so they had to let him go and before they could come re-arrest him, he went into hiding. So he was in hiding in Navu. This was the time that Emma was um bringing him correspondence, taking it back and forth. She was having to be really careful because she was being watched and followed, so it was just a really difficult time, and that’s what we’re going to go into is Doctrine Covenants 127 and 128. Remember the dates, they matter. 127 was a letter written on September 1st of 1842. And it starts out with Joseph talking about the perils that he is always in. Well, we’re going to skip through cause it’s a lot to digest. So we’ll start with verse 2. And as for the perils which I am called the pass through, they seem but a small thing to me, as the envy and wrath of man have been that my common lot all the days of my life, skipping forward deep water is what I am wont to swim in. It has all become a second nature to me, and I feel like Paul to glory and tribulation.

[00:09:55] So, um, you’ll notice this will become more important later. I’m pulling out some of the, the key parts that I want you to remember, but we’re going, he goes on to talk about the ordinances and specifically baptism for the dead. We’re going to skip down to verse 6. Let there be a recorder and let him be eyewitness of your baptisms. Let him hear with his ears that he may testify of a Truth sayeth the Lord that in all your recordings it may be recorded in heaven. This is important. Pay attention that in all your recordings it may be recorded in heaven. Whatsoever you bind on earth may be bound in heaven. Whatsoever you you loose on earth may be loosed in heaven. So he’s just kind of throwing that in there together. I think this is like the first bit of an inspiration. That he’s then going to ponder on and really bring forward more understanding in his next letter that’s going to be 128. So this is the first hint of it, 127. So then he goes on, for I am about to restore many things to the earth pertaining to the priesthood, sayeth the Lord of hosts. And again, let All the records we had in order that they may be put in the archives of my holy temple to be held in remembrance from generation to generation, sayeth the Lord of hosts. OK, so he’s talking, he’s talking about baptisms for the dead. He goes on to say that he really wanted to address the saints about baptisms for the dead, but he won’t be able to because he has to be in hiding, so he’s just going to write to them instead. So you’ll note what he said. That all you may that in all your recordings that may be recorded in heaven. Whatsoever you bind on earth may be bound in heaven, whatsoever you loose on earth may be loose in heaven, for I am about to restore many things to the earth pertaining to the priesthood, sayeth the Lord of hosts. Now, I, I, I don’t know exactly the best way to address this cause it’s so big, but I’m going to go ahead and talk about that verse about that he’s about to um restore many things. Our common way of understanding that is to think this was all about baptisms for the dead. And he’s going to go forward to restore everything about ceiling, which to the early um church, the early polygamist mentality, ceilings and eternal marriage meant polygamy. That was all synonymous, right? So some people like to say that um this that what he’s going to go forward to reveal is about polygamy and plural marriage, but this is the Lord speaking, saying that he’s going to continue to reveal things, right? This was 1842. According to our polygamous marriage, the revelation that became 132 was given as early as 1831 or 1833, whenever we want to date it, so it can predate Fanny Alger but still be in the realm of when he was um um redoing the Old Testament, right? So. That’s where we get those dates. So by our own claims, this cannot be talking about restoring plural marriage and ceilings cause that had already been done according to this mindset, right? If you listen to all of the, like, come follow me podcast on 127, 128, they say, oh, he’s thinking this is all about baptisms for the dead, but really it’s about plural marriage. I Hope we can all agree that doesn’t work based on the dates. This is September 1842. According to our dates, he had already married many women, OK? So, so it’s important to keep that in mind. We’re going to go ahead and go to section 128, which expounds on this more. This was given five days later,

[00:13:11] September 6, 1842. So, um, he spends the beginning verses giving very specific, minute, exacting details of how recorders must be called and how they must make the records and how the records must be kept. It’s very involved, so I’m not going, I had to listen to this section several times to get a sense. It it gets really complicated throughout it. So go ahead, please read um section 127 and 128 until you thoroughly understand them because this is so crucially, critically important. So, OK, so he, he’s giving all of those very specific details of calling recorders and how records must be kept. We’ll skip down to verse 5. You may think this order of things to be very particular. Yes, it is. But let me tell you that it is only to answer the will of God by conforming to the ordinances and preparation that the Lord ordained and prepared before the foundation of the world. He then quotes Revelation 2012, and I saw the dead, small and great, stand before. God, and the books were opened and another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books according to the to their works. OK. So he goes on to explain, so remember before he said things are recorded in earth and recorded on heaven. So you have the power to bind on earth and to bind in heaven, right? And now he’s talking about the dead that will be judged out of the books and out of the book of life. So he goes on to expound on this more. We’re going to start down in verse 7. The books spoken of must be the books which contained the records of their works and refer to the records which are kept on earth, and the book which was the book of life is the record which is kept in heaven. The principle agreeing precisely with the doctrine that was revealed in the last letter referring back to 1277 that we just read several times, that in all your recordings it may be recorded in heaven whatsoever you bought that I’m doing it again. This is 127/7, it that it may. What so you bind on earth, maybe bound in heaven or whatsoever you lose on earth may be loosed in heaven. He repeats that here, that in all your recordings, it may be recorded in heaven. Now, in 8, I, I’m sorry if this is confusing. You’ll have to go read it if you’re not understanding what I’m saying, but in 8, he explains it very well. Now the nature of this ordinance consists in the power of the priesthood by the revelation of Jesus Christ, wherein it is granted that whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven or whatsoever you loose on earth may shall be loosed in heaven, or in other words, taking a different view of the translation. Whatsoever you record on earth shall be recorded in heaven, and whatsoever you do not record on earth shall not be recorded in heaven. Are you getting the connection he’s saying our power. Or his power to bind on earth and have it bound in heaven consists in the records. To bind on earth and have it be bound in heaven means to record it on the earth so that it is recorded in heaven so that the books out of which the dead are judged will match the book of life, that is the record kept in heaven. That is what he is specifically saying here in great detail going into. Great depths. He goes on to talk more about it. Verse 9. It may seem to some to be a very bold doctrine that we talk of a power which records or binds on earth as it binds in heaven. Again, records or binds.

[00:16:45] He’s making those completely synonymous, and this is obviously the first time he’s talking about it because he says this may seem like a bold doctrine. Nevertheless, in all ages of the world, whenever the Lord has given a dispensation of the priesthood to any man by actual revelation or any set of men. This power has always been given. Hence, whatsoever those men did in authority in the name of the Lord and did it truly and faithfully and kept a proper and faithful record of it of the same, it became a law on earth and in heaven and could not be annulled according to the decrees of the great Jehovah. This is a faithful saying who can hear it. OK, can we hear it? Can we hear what he is saying? He is, do you hear the elements that must be there? There have to be men in authority who have faithfully and received true revelation and true power by the power of God, and they have to keep a proper and faithful record of what they do in their power. So we baptized by the true power given us. To God given us by God and we record it. And that is how we bind on earth and bind in heaven, or seal on earth and seal in heaven. That is the ceiling power that he is talking about. He then goes on, I hope, I hope you’re with me so far. I’ll go on to explain a little more for those of you who aren’t quite. I hope you’ve watched the Todd Compton interview because you probably have already made the connections. If you have, I asked them specific questions just because I Had learned this this morning, but I’ll go on and explain it. He then goes on to give scriptural precedence and expounds on baptisms and baptisms for the dead. He quotes Corinthians chapter 15, and um, and he taught verses 46 to 48, which is about how man is first earthy and then is spiritual, and then he likens that to the records of the church. He says, and as the records on the earth in rela um and as The records on the earth in relation to your dead, which are truly made out. So also are the records in heaven. This is so just like man is first um earthy and then spiritual, he’s saying the records have to be kept on earth so that they can be kept in heaven. This, therefore is the ceiling and binding power, and in one sense of the word, the keys of the kingdom, which consists in the key of knowledge. It’s so clear he couldn’t make it more clear. The ceiling power is the power to do ordinances through the true restored priesthood and record them. Those are the elements necessary. Those are the keys of the kingdom, he says. Then in 15, he goes on to say that this cannot be passed. Over as pertaining to our salvation for the dead and the living, this cannot be passed cannot be lightly passed over. He’s he’s doing everything he can to try to make it clear how important this is, for their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation, as Paul says concerning the Father. That they without us cannot be made perfect. Neither can we without our dead be made perfect, OK? So he’s that, um, he’s going, he he goes on, you’ll, you’ll be amazed by this. I was amazed by it. He continues to quote Corinthians 15, and then he goes on to expound what he calls this most glorious of all subjects belonging to the everlasting gospel, namely, The baptism for the dead. He then quotes Malachi, speaking of Elijah turning the hearts of the children to the fathers and the fathers to the children, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse, and he speaks of that as the necessary welding link. In verse 18, the earth will be smitten with a curse unless there is a welding

[00:20:25] link of some kind or other between the fathers and the children. Upon some subject or other, so there has to be something that welds them, and behold, what is that subject? It is the baptism for the dead, for we without them cannot be made perfect. Neither can they without us be made perfect. Neither can they nor we be made perfect without those who have died. The Gospel also skipping forward that a whole and complete and perfect union and welding together of dispensations and keys and powers and glory should take place and be revealed from the days of Adam even to the present time. He gives, he spends the rest of this section going on and just Rejoicing and glorying in the gospel and recounting all of the things that have happened, all of the profound manifestations that they have had to bring them to this point where it finally comes all together. OK, are you getting this? This is what Joseph Smith is revealing as the ceiling power, as the welding link. It was the last revelation given in his lifetime. That was included in the doctrine of covenants. He is so excited about this. It’s, he, you can see that he’s learning it and figuring out figuring it out between that first letter on September 1st and the second letter on September 6th. It is so exciting to him. If you read, you can just sense how I’ve got it, I’ve figured it out. It’s amazing, right? And um like I said, every discussion about it says, well, this is what he thought it was at this time, but he goes on to learn more. He can’t go on to learn more because of meaning learning more, meaning about polygamy, right? And that like, like 132. He can’t because this is after we claim he has already received that. OK? Are you, are you with me? So, um, so the timing doesn’t work to say that, well, he just hadn’t gotten polygamy yet, but what’s even more important. That you have to understand. There are no records. There are no records. Joseph Smith is saying here, the ceiling power is the power to keep records so that what is recorded on Earth is recorded in heaven. And what is not recorded on earth is not recorded in heaven. That is the binding power, that is the ceiling power. That that is what this is all based on, and there have to be records cause that’s what gives us this power. There are no records of any ceilings, so I will tell you the lengths I went to to make sure first of all, you will remember I asked Todd Compton, who is really the authoritative um voice um on who, who are the wives of Joseph Smith according to this narrative. And he acknowledged that there were no records of any ceilings. I am here. I will show you the email exchanges. I wrote, Hi, I am trying to find out if there are records or ceilings from the Navu Temple. My understanding is that careful records were kept of baptisms for the dead and for endowments, but I haven’t been able to find any records of ceilings until later in Utah. More specifically, I am wondering if we have any Navu era records of ceilings for Joseph Smith, either with Emma or any other wives. Thanks. That’s the um I sent that to the family history library, which is where the records are supposed to be, and here I will put their response.

[00:23:48] This was amazing to me because it’s, it told me how I can access the Navu Temple records. I have to bring my temple recommend and um my, my driver’s license, and then it goes on to say the following books may provide references to to sources and records related to Joseph Smith’s plural marriage. It refers me to Todd Compton’s in Sacred Loneliness. Remember, I just confirmed with Todd that there are no records. And then to Brian Hailes, um, Joseph Smith’s polygamy, and also Brian Hales, if you look on his entire site everywhere, there are no records. There are no ceiling records, none. They don’t exist, period. There are none. So I Um, went. I’ll have to, this is gonna be a long episode, so I have to tell you quickly, but I had the craziest day. It was my son’s last day at the MTC and he was flying out first thing in the morning. So it was my last day to get him a coat that, um, we get everything at Mr. Mac and they had been out of the missionary coats since my son first got his call. We’ve been trying to get him a missionary coat in medium tall. It got to where I would even take a medium. They had none. Their distribution was broken. They had nothing. I kept calling and calling and calling. No coats. This was the last day I could get a package to my son, and I woke up and first thing that morning had an impression call Mr. Mac. So I called and found they told, they called me back and told me that very morning they had had one return. They had nothing in their system smaller than an extra large in in the coats that we needed. They had had one return, I’m gonna cry in a medium tall. The size my son needed, that was the only thing they had was that one that had just been returned the day before. In the size we needed, everything else was an extra large, and it was at their downtown Salt Lake store. I had already made an appointment to go downtown to the family history library to look at the records, so it was a crazy day cause I went. Downtown made this all happen. I ended up having to go up to um the University of Utah, the Marriott Library, where some records were kept. I went there. I went downtown. I got the coat. I got it to the place I had to take it in Provo by 3 o’clock to ship to missionaries, so my son could have it before he left the next morning. And since I was in Provo anyway, I went ahead and went to the BYU Family History Center cause they told me they had slightly different records than the Salt Lake Center. That was my cra. I was like, this is the most bizarre Mormon mom day. It was a complete Mormon mom day and it was great. So that’s, that’s a day in the life, right? But I did actually confirm at both family. History centers that there are no temple ceiling records in Navvo. There are no ceiling records. We have these are the dates I was given, so if anyone has different ones, you can let me know. But these were what I was able to see and what I was given at both family history centers. We have baptismal records from the 1840s through 8 to 1845. I think those are the baptism for the Dead records.

[00:26:49] We have endowment records from December 1845 through February 1846. It’s really strange. They went through as couples. You’ll see the very first company, there was Brigham Young and his one wife, Hebrewy Kimball, and his one wife, right? That’s how they went through. That’s it’s just really strange to try to couple this with polygamy. But um there are absolutely no records of ceilings. The only records of ceilings from the Navu Temple were in January and February of 1846. Please remember, Joseph was killed in 1844. So the first records we have are almost 2 years after his death, and that’s it. That’s all we have. There’s nothing else. So, um, the only records of any kind we have that are pretending to be sealing records for Joseph Smith. Are later proxy ceilings, so. So like think about this for a second. We are claiming that the founder of this dispensation, Joseph Smith, who ushered in this dispensation, who translated the Book of Mormon, received all of the keys, um, brought forth all of the revelations, established all of the powers that we say we have all the keys for his work had to be done for him after he died. Really? Do we really? Someone explained that to me how he restored everything and it had to be done for him. Did he have to have his baptism done for him after he was dead? Did he like it just is completely illogical. He revealed clearly our ceiling power is our power to record. So let’s, so let’s think about this. Those who believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet, right? Can we believe that he was doing ceilings without making records when you, you heard the words himself that he spoke that the power to seal is the power to record. So I know people will say, well, it was illegal, it was dangerous. I’m sorry. No, they were able to write correspondences back and forth. He wrote these revelations. There were all kinds of records that they were able to keep and keep safe. They kept all of the baptism. For the dead dead records safe, all of that was just as precarious as any other records. They were writing letters to each other using code names. They, um, um, we have records of Brigham Young writing in Masonic texts. There were all kinds of ways to keep records, and if Joseph believed what he was saying, he would have kept records if he if he was. Believing in polygamy, right? So we have to believe that he was restoring and understanding the ceiling power in September of 1842, but he had gotten this revelation on eternal ceilings and polygamy as early as 1831 or 1833, wherever we need to date it to make it OK that. We believe he was having sex with Fanny Alger in the barn, which I think we shouldn’t believe. So anyway, we’ll go on to those sources in another episode for anyone that still has questions about them. But I, I want you to understand how important this is. Anyone who believes Joseph was a prophet of God should believe that this was a true revelation. And therefore we must acknowledge that things must be recorded in order to be sealed.

[00:30:08] So since nothing was recorded, I don’t see any way to not believe that at least in God’s eyes, Joseph is not a polygamist since there are no records of any plural wife. Anyone who believes that Joseph Smith was just a complete fraud, go through and read 127 and 128. I think, I think we have to at least consider that Joseph believed his own revelations, right? Even if, even if you don’t believe them, he believed them. I think that’s pretty clear, and he is receiving this ceiling power, getting this new insight and saying it has to be recorded. So if he was going to these women, telling them to marry him, he would have kept a record of it, right? Or if he was just going around these women trying to deceive them, trying to be uh trying to be predatory as John Bennett was, then he wouldn’t have claimed that this was what the ceiling power was. He wouldn’t have completely contradicted himself, that and undermined everything that he was doing. It just doesn’t make sense at all in any way. So, um, OK, so now we’re gonna go on to talk about again how we have the narrative we have so we can understand because Joseph Smith did believe his own theology. Joseph Smith was very adept at the scriptures. He was, he knew the Bible well every time that he um brought up the Bible, he was accurate. He was right about it, he knew it. And then when he received revelations, they expounded upon it. They built on it. They were in agreement with it, unless he was specifically saying that he was fixing something or improving something, but He was never just ignorant of the Bible, except in section 132, right? And even in section 128, you can see how familiar he is with the Bible and how much he depends on it for his new theology, for his new revelation. That is in keeping with Joseph everywhere except in 132. 132 is the one glaring exception. Of of Joseph’s consistent um example and and pattern of knowing the Bible and having it coincide with his revelation. Also, for those who want to claim Joseph was a polygamist and that you’re like, please explain to me, we’ll go into this a little bit more in a minute, but how so we, we can show that in section 128, Joseph’s supposed polygamy does not at all correspond to his theology. It’s in complete contradiction of it. Same with section 132. 132 is all about if you have this many virgins and they have to be virgins and then blah blah blah blah blah, all of these horrible ideas, everything we claim Joseph did, there’s no resemblance at all to section 132. So if we believe that Joseph brought forth this revelation, what we’re saying that he completely disregarded, ignored his own revelation. Commandments of God and how to do this thing. Like, like really think about that. So now we have 132 completely contrasting what we claim about Joseph and even more strongly, 128. If Joseph revealed 128, which we know he did, cause it’s in the 1844 doctrine and covenants, as opposed to the very, very questionable origin of Section 132. Then he would have kept records. We would have records so that they could be sealed on earth and sealed in heaven because that was the ceiling power Joseph Smith claimed to have. OK, so now let’s go on to get what we do have,

[00:33:40] what we do have that claims Joseph was a polygamist. The only claims we have of Joseph Joseph’s polygamy during his lifetime or in Navu at all are from John Bennett. Joseph’s sworn enemy who wanted to kill him, so Bennett is the only one going around consistently repeating that Joseph is a polygamist or others that are in his camp that he gets in his camp who are actually working actively to the death of Joseph Smith. They were massive enemies. John Bennett, we know, was going around teaching spiritual wifery. Joseph Smith. Kept putting it down, putting it down, finally kicked John Bennett out. John Bennett was going to get revenge, so he was the one constantly claiming that Joseph was a polygamist. Those are the only claims we have of Joseph’s polygamy. We also have William Law. We don’t have what he actually wrote or what he actually said or much of it. He doesn’t have details. So, and we don’t have any evidence of William Law. Knowing that other than through the same claims that John Bennett was making, and William Law also wanted was working actively toward Joseph’s death. So we have the sworn enemies of Joseph’s death, saying that Joseph was a polygamist, and those are who we agree with in the church narrative. We say that John Bennett and William Law. Who were trying to have Joseph Smith get Joseph Smith killed, that they were the ones telling the truth and that Joseph and Hiram and Emma and all the others were not telling the truth, right? And those are those are the only statements we have. I need to clarify I am talking about the specific claims of Joseph’s polygamy, things like women claiming to be his wives, men and women claiming he taught them secret doctrines, etc. This does not include other scattered documents and claims that people interpret as evidence of Joseph’s polygamy, um, things including, um, Oliver’s statement on Fannie Alger, Joseph’s note to the Whitneys, William Clayton’s journals, the happiness. Letter William Mark’s claims. Sydney Rigdon’s messenger and advocate. We will go over all of these as well as looking more closely into Bennett’s accusations and the law’s claims in the Novo expository in the next several episodes. If there are any other sources sticking in your craw that point to Joseph’s guilt, please write them in the comments, and I will add them to the list and be sure to address them. So that’s where we are. Everything else we have saying Joseph was a polygamist comes much, much later. We have, we have um section 132, which was brought forth in um 1852, right? So eight years after Joseph’s death, and I’m going to go on to explain that that hangs solely on the credibility of William Clayton. If you believe William Clayton, then you can believe that Joseph revealed 132 and that John Bennett and William Law were telling the truth and everyone else was lying, including Joseph and Hirum. If you question William Bennett, I mean William Clayton, the, well, pretty accurate, they’re about the same, the whole thing gets thrown out and we’re going to talk about while why William Clayton is not a good one to have this much um credibility, his credibility is not a good thing to hang this on when it’s this big and this major. The only other things we have saying that Joseph was a polygamist come from 1869. They. Start in 1869. I found one affidavit that was dated questionably at 1867. The rest 1869, fully 25 years after Joseph’s death are the first times we have anybody claiming anything about Joseph’s polygamy to in any way testify of that. So

[00:37:22] we’re gonna go through this story so we can paint a really clear picture of what we have and where it comes from. We are going to talk. About what Joseph Smith himself said, what he said, what Hiram said, what Emma said, we’re not going to even go into most of. We’re not going to include what Emma said in this episode. We did, we did that on the episode on Emma, but we’re going to start talking about this. So you’ll remember the first thing, Doctrine and Covenants in the 1835 and the 1844 editions. So, um, 1835 was the edition all during Joseph’s life. 1844 is the one he prepared that was printed right after his death. So this is what he sustained and ordained. It included section 101, which Ryan Hayes calls CI the article on marriage. Here’s the quote. Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with a crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death when either is at liberty to marry again. I ask you, does that leave the door open, right? Again, if I tell my child, you can have one piece of candy, does that mean you can have one plus as many more as you want, right? Nope, that’s silly. That’s the polygamy lenses that twist everything around that some people are still going to do with this sadly, but let’s be honest, please, let’s be honest and see what it really says. That’s what he said. Then that scripture, that was the canonized scripture it was you can read again the um. But the episode where I talk about this, that that was canonized. It was voted on unanimously by every single group and quorum. It was accepted by common consent just as scripture is supposed to be in our church. It was also restated and reprinted ad nauseam. It was used constantly to say, look, this is the law of our church. This is what we are doing. Just think like you’ll see the extents they went to. So this is September 21st, 1842, so you’ll Notice right after he wrote those letters right in hiding that became sections 127 and 128. This was printed in the Times and Season is as inasmuch as the public mind has been adjusted has been unjustly abused through the fallacy of Dr. Bennett’s letters, we make an extra an extract on the subject of marriage showing the rule of the church on this important matter. The extract is from the doctrine and covenants and is the only rule allowed in the church. It then goes on to quote section 101. This is another one that happened so many times. This is October 1st, 1842, under the title on marriage that just kept saying and saying, look, we are not doing this. This was um in the times and seasons, um, it reprints all of section 101, followed by we have given the above rule of marriage as the only one practiced in this church to show that Dr. JC Bennett’s secret wife system is a matter of his own manufacture, and further to disabuse the public ear and to show that the said Bennett and his misanthropic friend origin bachelor are perpetuating. A foul and infamous slander upon an innocent people and need not not and need not but be known to be hated and despised in this position in my goodness, in support of this position, we present the following certificates and then you can read these certificates that um they are as different groups and different quorums specifically and Solidly disavowing any practice other than what was included in section 101.

[00:40:57] They are saying we are not practicing this. It doesn’t matter if you call it plural marriage, if you call it polygamy, if you call it spiritual wifery, they like all of these little, um, splitting hairs, playing with words, pretending that words like reminds me of Bill Clinton. It depends on what the definition. The definition of the word is, is so that we can make lies, we can pretend to make it sound like things are truths that are really lies. No, we either believe this is honest or we believe it’s not, right? So you can see these, um, very strong disavowals that they make, and, um, both the men and the women. OK, let’s move forward. Um, March 1842, this is a letter to the relief Society. From Joseph Smith and other church church leaders. I’m going to read quite extensively from it. Um, to the, to the honorary, the president of the Female Relief Society of Navvo greeting. Can the Female Relief Society of Navu be trusted with some important matters that ought actually to belong to them to see which men have been under the to to see to, which men have been under the necessity of seeing to, to their chagrin and mortification. In order to prevent iniquitous characters from carrying their iniquity into effect, such as, for instance, a man who may be aspiring after power and authority and yet without principle, regardless of God, man, or the devil or the interest or welfare of man or the virtue of innocent women or virtue or innocence of women, shall the credulity, good faith, and steadfast feelings of our sisters for the cause of God or truth be imposed upon by by believing such men. Because they say they have authority from Joseph or the first presidency or any of the other presidency of the church, you can see how people are going around saying Joseph’s doing this. Joseph said it’s OK, they’re they’re in secret saying Joseph did it. Joseph is constantly saying, I didn’t say this. I didn’t say this. I never said this, and he’s trying to put it down in every way possible. So we know from all of these things that people are lying about Joseph saying he’s saying it’s OK. Listen to the lengths he goes to to say it’s not. Um, let’s see where I was, um, and thus with a lie in their mouth deceive and debauch the innocent under the assumption that they are authorized from these sources, may God forbid. A knowledge of some such thing have things have come to our ears. We improve this favorable we improve this favorable opportunity wherein so goodly a number of you may be informed that no such authority ever has ever can, or ever will be given to any man. Do you hear that? Is there room for splitting hairs there? And if any man has been guilty of some such thing, let him be treated with utter contempt and let the curse of God fall on his head and let him be turned out of society as unworthy of place among men and denounced as the as the blackened and the most unprincipled wretch and finally let him be damned. We have been informed that some unprincipled men whose name we will whose names we will not mention at present have been guilty of such crimes suffice. It to say there are those, and we therefore warn you and forewarn you in the name of the Lord to check and destroy any faith that the innocent person may have in any such character, for we do not want any anyone believing anything coming from us, coming from us, any of us coming from us, contrary to the old established morals and virtues and scriptural laws regarding the habits, customs, and conduct of society.

[00:44:35] And all persons pretending to be authorized by us or having any permit or sanction from us are and will be liars and base impostors, and you are authorized on the very first intimation of the kind to denounce them as such and shun them as the fly flying fiery serpents, whether they are prophets, see. Or revelators, patriarchs, 12 apostles, apostles, elders, priests, mayors, generals, city councilors, aldermen, marshals, police, lord mayors, or the devil, all are alike culpable and shall be damned for such evil practices. And if you yourselves adhered to any of the kind, you also shall be damned. Have you heard that one before? That was a letter that they wrote to the relief society to have read to them. Now, beloved sisters, do not believe for a moment that we wish to impose upon you. We actually do know of such that such things have existed in the church and are sorry to say that we are obliged to make mention of any such thing, and we want to put a stop to them. And we desire you to do your part, and we will do ours, for we wish to keep the commandments of God in all things as given directly from heaven to us, living by every word that proceedeth forth out of the mouth of God. OK, pretty strong denunciation, right? Was Joseph just lying? OK, let’s continue on. Times and seasons. February 1st, 1844. So this was the year of Joseph’s death just a few months before Joseph and Hiram’s death. This was a letter they together wrote in the Times and Seasons, as we have been lately credibly informed that an elder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by the name Hiram Brown has been preaching polygamy and other false and corrupt doctrines in the House of Lipier State of Michigan. This is to notify him and the church. General that he has been cut off from the church for his iniquity, and he is further notified to appear at the special conference on April 6th of April next to make answer to these charges. Joseph Smith, Hiram Smith, presidents of the church. They were co-presidents of the church. They were excommunicating people who practiced polygamy. Hiram Brown was not the only one, but this was the public, one of the public notices put to try to make it as clear as possible that this would not be tolerated. OK, this is March 15, 1844, so what, a month after that one? To the brethren of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints living on China Creek and Hancock County, greetings, whereas Brother Richard Hewitt has called on me today to know my views concerning some doctrines that are preached in your place and states to me that some of your elders say that a man having a certain priesthood may have as many wives as he pleases, and that doctrine is taught here, I say unto you that that man teaches false doctrine, for there is no such doctrine taught here. Neither is there any such thing practiced here. And any man that is found teaching privately or publicly any such doctrine is culpable and will stand a chance to be brought before the high council and lose his license and membership also. Therefore, he is, he had better beware what he is about. Hiram Smith, remember, Hiram Smith was a co-president of the church at this time. Hiram and Joseph were close. They were very close confidants, right? So I’m just wanting you to hear these denunciations. They like, we we explain them away by either ignoring them,

[00:48:01] pretending they don’t exist, or the ones we do admit exist. We call them carefully worded denials. We gotta stop with these euphemisms and these false claims. Let’s believe, Joseph said, can you, can any of us hear it? Can we hear what he was saying? Let’s try to hear what he’s saying. So, OK, this continues on. March 7, 1844. So right before that notice was given, was in front of a crowd of 8000 members of the church gathered at the temple. Joseph Smith spoke first, and he spoke against promoters of polygamy and told the congregation to speak out, say whether such men shall be tolerated and supported in our midst. He’s talking about people who teach polygamy or who claim that the church teaches polygamy. No, no, it’s not allowed to happen. Then he had William Phelps read. Letter, it’s called the Voice of Innocence. I’ve spoken about it before. It’s very flowery and ornate. William Phelps wrote it with the um under the under the direction of Joseph Smith. Emma Smith added some um edits to it, and it was read, it was read at this meeting in front of 8000 people, and then Emma held 4 separate relief society um meetings so that all of the sisters could Hear it. They were each of the meetings was overflowing. So we’re just gonna read a couple of little snippets from the Voice of Innocence, which Joseph had written, had read, as he said, stood on the stand after having printed all these things in these magazines, writing, I mean, in the newspapers, writing these letters. Can you hear how hard he is trying to make this clear, right? Here’s what it says. It becomes us in defense of our rights to rebuke such an Outrage upon the sanctity of society to thwart such a death blow at the hallowed marriage covenant and to that that this is the death blow to the hallowed marriage covenant and to ward off such poisoned daggers from the hearts of our innocent daughters and so put in every virtuous woman’s hand a rod to scourge such tormentors of domestic felicity with vengeance throughout the world. Curse the man that preys upon female virtue. Let the whole virtuous female population of the city with one voice declare that the seducer of female chastity shall have no place in our houses, in our affections, or in our society, resolved unanimously that Joseph Smith, the mayor of the city, be tendered our thanks for the able and manly. manner in which he defended injured innocents. This is responding to accusations, accusations that Hiram had spiritual wives and was teaching it and that it was going on in Navvo involved most of the women, all the same lies that we are believing now is what they are saying no, we are not going to believe this. We’re not going to stand for it. So they’re thanking Joseph for putting this all down, resolved unanimously that we view with unqualified disapprobation and scorn the conduct of any man that reflects dishonor upon the poor persecuted mothers, mothers, widows, wives, and daughters of the saints of Nav Navu resolved unanimously that we raise our voices and hands against polygamy as a scheme of profligates to seduce women. Wherefore, while the married Bed undefiled is honorable. Let polygamy, bigamy, fornication, adultery, and prostitution be frowned out of the hearts of honest men to drop in the gulf of fallen nature, where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched, and let all saints, all the saints say Amen. The congregation then yelled, Amen, amen.

[00:51:34] They yelled it twice. So do you hear this? There’s not leaving. They’re not leaving room, and if we want To say that Joseph was having this son just to deceive. Remember the things they had written previously saying no matter who, no matter if it’s a prophet or the president of the church, no matter who tells you these things, do not believe them. They’re they’re, they’re not being duplicitous here. They are, uh, it’s really frustrating. So anyway, that was the voice of innocence. Remember that Joseph was on the stand, had it written, and was presiding every time that it was read. OK, we’re gonna go go on April 8th, 1844. So this is eight months after, OK, let’s get the timeline right, right? OK, William, I mean, William Clayton, so many names, William Clayton claimed that um we’re gonna get to his affidavit about section 132. He’s the only one that can tell the story of it or that it tells where it came from, came from. He claims. that it comes in 1843. This and that Joseph and Hirum were in the room and Hiram was saying, it’s so plain and so clear, of course I can convince Emma, just write the revelation, right? That’s what William Clayton’s story is. This is April 8th, 1844, so it’s eight months after that supposed meeting that William Clayton talks about that we’re going to get into a little bit longer. So this is Hiram Smith. He wanted to speak to Elders and he spoke. This is a long and impassioned speech. Again, I’m just going to read a portion of it. He says one reason I speak to the elders is in consequence of the 10,000 reports from abroad. Almost every man runs to him talking about Joseph to inquire if things are true, how many to inquire if things are true, how many spiritual wives a man may have in about half an hour, another half an hour after the man was gone, another would begin. The um the elders tell such things all over the country. I am authorized to tell you from henceforth that any man who comes in and tells any any such damn fool doctrine to come in. To take away his license, none but fools. None but a fool teaches such stuff. The devil himself is not such a fool. Every elder who teaches such stuff ought to have his nose wrung. His name will be published, and if found guilty, his license shall be taken. When elders are set to preach the gospel, they are not to preach anything but the gospel, to show themselves approved and not fools. I wish the elders. Israel to understand it is lawful for a man to marry a wife, but it is unlawful to have more, and God has not commanded any one of you to have more. And if any one of you dare to presume to do any such thing, it will spoil your fun, for you, for you will never preach the gospel. I despise a man who teaches a pack, pack of stuff that will disgrace himself so. For a man to go into the world and talk of this spiritual wife system, a man is as empty as an open sepulcher. If the coat suits anyone, let him be put into it. He is denunciating, is that the right word, polygamy as strongly as he can.

[00:54:43] He goes on to talk about how foolish it is, how nobody would want more than one wife, how they would, how, how it wouldn’t work. He gives this whole sermon talking about this. This is supposedly after he saw it as this plain, pure, clear, beautiful doctrine according only to William Clayton, right? Should we listen to William Clayton or to Hiram’s own words that he’s teaching? OK, this is May 26th, 1844. I believe this is Joseph’s last sermon before he is killed, the one in which he says that there are friends here who were conspiring to kill him. Um, so to put this speech in context, you should first read 2 Corinthians chapter 11. I read that and it made this speech make so much more sense. I’m not going to read it here, but that’s what he started it with, and then he expounded on that. I’m gonna read quite a few quotes from this as well, cause you need to understand what they were actually saying. God knows then that the charges against me are false. I had not been married scarcely 5 minutes and made one proclamation of the gospel before it was reported I had 7 wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can. William Law has gone to Carthage and swore that I told him I was guilty of adultery, this spiritual wifeism. Why, a man dares not speak or wink for fear of being accused of this. William Law testified before 40 policemen and an assembly room full of witnesses. That he testified under oath that he never had heard or seen or knew anything immoral or criminal against me, and now he swears that I have committed adultery. I wish the grand jury would tell me who they are, whether it be a curse or a blessing to me. I am quite tired of the fools asking me, so it keeps going on. They keep, he keeps trying to put down these claims of plural marriage. He didn’t have a difference. There is no one who wants to say that he was just putting down spiritual wife. While he was promoting celestial marriage or plural marriage, find a single quote. Find one single thing Joseph ever said in favor of anything. He lumped it all in together polygamy, plural wives, spiritual wifery, um, adultery. It was all the same thing to him, which is consistent with all of his teachings. I’m not even getting into all of his revelations and teachings throughout the doctrine and covenants throughout the Book of Mormon, which unanimously all agree that Marriage is between one man and one woman. There’s there’s no exception anywhere. It is soundly condemned in all of Joseph’s writings, in all of his revelations, and everything that he translated. So why, why do we do this? Right? It’s only when we come back to it, we ignore part of it and look at the later claims. Ah, and it’s clear from what he’s saying that no matter how much he tried to put it down, the elders kept teaching it. There were elders that kept teaching it despite what Joseph kept telling them. And so, um, And now the new prophet, this he’s talking about William Law, has he, he, he and this, I, there’s a Joseph continually compares himself to Paul, the false accusations being made, the imprisonments, the persecutions he experienced. That’s what he does again in this sermon. He does that in Section 17127 that we just read. He does that in his history that we’re going to read in a minute. So he really that’s a theme of his life is the being persecuted for the truth’s sake. um. Let’s see, and now the new prophet has charged me with adultery, um,

[00:58:03] a man asked me whether the commandment was given that that a man may have 7 wives, and now the new prophet has charged me with adultery. I never had any fuss with these men until the female relief Society brought out the paper against adulterers and adulteressses. We used that to to justify Brigham’s claim that it was. Relief Society led to Joseph’s death. I don’t think he’s saying that at all. I think he’s saying it was published with the relief Society that we, he was opposed to it, and even that wasn’t enough. He goes on to say the law’s clique were dissatisfied with that document, and they rush away and leave the church and conspire to take away my life. Like, what more do they need to prove that wasn’t enough for them? And because I will not countenance such wickedness, they proclaim that I have been a true that I have been a true prophet but am now a fallen prophet. Wilson Law also swears and told him that I was guilty of adultery. Brother Jonathan Durham can speak to the contrary. I have been chained. I have rattled the chains in dungeons for the truth’s sake. Joseph wasn’t a liar. Throughout his life we’re going to talk about that a little bit more. He didn’t lie for self-preservation. I am innocent of all of these charges, and you can bear witness of my innocence, for ye know, for you know me yourselves. What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery and having 7 wives when I can only find one. Again, he’s saying I’m being accused of having 7 wives. Those who claim he was splitting hairs, were they his wives or were they not? He’s denying that he had more than 1 wife. This is an outright lie, according to the polygamist narrative. The standard narrative, Brian Hale’s narrative. The calls Joseph Smith a liar. They just try to make a euphemism of carefully worded denials. No, this isn’t a carefully worded denial. This is Joseph Smith saying, I have one wife. I am innocent of all of these accusations that are still being hurled at him, right? He says, I am the same man. And, and as innocent as I was 14 years ago, and I can prove them all perjurers, I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience, and then I sent my brother Hiram, who they virtually kicked out of doors. He talked, talks about the efforts he’s gone to to bring them back into the fold, to convince them. The polygamy is not true and that he never taught it and that he wasn’t a polygamist, right? So, um, it goes on and on. I will have all of the links to all of these original sources in the notes so you can go read them for yourselves. So, Carefully worded denials, that’s what we that’s that’s what we use to explain all of this away. That’s just that there’s the same amount of integrity in that as in saying that that a man can have one wife is saying, well, that just means he can have at least one wife. Right, like, it’s the same thing that claims that Jacob too is teaching, oh no, if God wants polygamy, we have to actually look at the words, look at the context, read with honesty instead of with our willful, our our determination to willfully change what these words clearly mean. So let’s look at this. We’re claiming that these were lies. We’re claiming that Joseph and Hiram were saying this while doing something else, right? Tell me what other doctrine they lied about. We just read Joseph say, I say that I have shaken chains in dungeon dungeons.

[01:01:32] For the truth’s sake, we have, um, him saying well throughout his life, um, these claims don’t hold up. From his youth he experienced what he called bitter persecution and reviling which caused him great sorrow. It happened from the time he was young. His entire life he was hated, reviled, chaste, persecuted, beaten, arrested, imprisoned, mocked, tormented because he wouldn’t lie about what God told him, right? He says from the very beginning, this is Joseph Smith history talking about when he was a young boy, 1415. So it was with me. He’s again comparing himself to Paul, which he. Again and again with the persecutions I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two personages, and they did in reality speak to me. And though I was hated and persecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true. And while they were persecuting me, reviling me, and speaking all manner of evil against me falsely for so saying. I was led to say in my heart, why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision and am who I, and who am I that I can withstand God? Or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen, for I had seen a vision. I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it. Neither dared I do it. At least I knew that by so doing I would offend God and come under condemnation. We’re supposed to believe that all of a sudden he’s lying about what God has told him, about what God has commanded him to do, and that that’s fine with Him and fine with God. This man who suffered persecution from his earliest youth all throughout his life compared himself to Paul and always stood for the truth, who throughout the scriptures that he himself revealed talked about the importance of honesty that the liars. Be thrust down to hell that search, search the Book of Mormon. He was faithful to the Bible. Search all of the scriptures for the words liar, for the word honest, for the word truth, and see the price that Joseph consistently throughout his life paid for the truth’s sake, right? He wasn’t a liar. He didn’t lie. And show me any other doctrine that he revealed and taught that. He lied about that God told him to lie about that he offered carefully worded denials about. He didn’t, he didn’t. It didn’t happen. So, um, feel free in the comments. Let’s have a discussion here because I find this compelling. This has really changed my perspective on this. So we have all of this, all of these denials, and this is only a portion of them, but there are some strong ones here. You can at least get a flavor for what Joseph was saying versus William Clayton. This whole thing on one side, Joseph Hirum, we already read all of Emma’s um um affidavits and her what what she said she was teaching and teaching and trying to put this down. She and Joseph stood side by side with Hirum, with Lucy, that like all of that on one side, on the other side we have John Bennett,

[01:04:33] William Law, who I think was influenced by John Bennett’s claims, and William Clayton, right? So we’re gonna see if William Clayton. is who we should trust because we have all of this versus William Clayton’s claim that Joseph revealed 132, Section 132. So let’s look at that now, OK? Um. Let’s see, this is from the last speech. I think I’m going out of order a little bit, but I want to again express the extent that Joseph went to to try to prove himself innocent. So this is from that same um May 26th, 1844 speech, the last before his death. He says, for the last 3 years I have a record of all my acts and proceedings, for I have kept several good faithful, and efficient clerks in constant employ. They have accompanied me everywhere and carefully kept my history. And they have written down what I have done, where I have been, and what I have said. Therefore, my enemies cannot charge me with any day, time, or place, but what I have written testimony to prove my actions, and my enemies cannot prove anything against me. OK, isn’t that interesting? That is the extent Joseph went to for 3 years to prove himself innocent. Guess what’s not included in any of those records anywhere. Any ceiling, any visitation to any wife, and we sure we can claim claim, well again, he was lying, right, that he, he wasn’t really, he was like, oh just leave this part out to his scribes who were recording all of his actions to prove that none of the accusations against him were true. So if you believe that’s who Joseph Smith is, I mean. I know that there are those who just hate Joseph Smith and are going to believe it that way. Anyone who believes Joseph Smith was a prophet of God or even a reasonably good or honest man, really consider. So, um, anyway, and go through all of those records and try to put times and dates together to accuse him of anything. He had them for 3. The last 3 years of his life. So what I think is, isn’t it tragic that despite these great lengths he went to to plead his innocence, we still are falsely accusing him. We’re still ignoring his words, ignoring his claims, ignoring his history and everything. That he said and did and this the extent he went to to prove himself innocent, we’re still accusing him. We who claim to be his followers, I think that is just tragic. So um so the reason I read that now is because it sounds like William Clayton had been one of these secretaries until 18. 43 when he was let go for theft. So James James Whitehead was one of Joseph’s secretaries, and um this is the the testimony he gave at the test at the Temple Lot at the Temple Lot trial. This is his testimony. He said, remember he was sworn under oath. William Clayton was Joseph Smith’s private secretary in some parts of the business. He attended the outside business and did whatever he was directed to do. William Clayton was there in the office before I was, but was not there at all,

[01:07:42] um, was not there all the time. After I came, he was removed from his position as private secretary by Joseph Smith and the committee, the Temple Committee, about the time I was appointed because there was something took place in connection with Clayton’s work that gave dissatisfaction. There was some money disappeared, and he was blamed for it. And for that reason, he was removed from that office that occurred in 1843 in the beginning of the year. OK, do you get the timing? So James James Whitehead, who we do know was Joseph’s scribe at this time, um, in 1843, says William Clayton had been his scribe, but I came in and he was let go because he was accused of theft. Stealing. So right there is a pretty strong testimony that should call William Clayton’s integrity into question. From that time on, he was only allowed to do the outdoor like he could check on the properties and things, but he couldn’t do any more scribe work for Joseph Smith or personal secretary work because he wasn’t trustworthy. So note the timing. This is important. James Whitehead said that William Clayton was let go as Joseph’s secretary at the beginning of 1843, January or February, the beginning of the year. Guess when 1843 was supposed to have been revealed. It was in July of that year, months after William Clayton was no longer Joseph’s secretary. So um we’ll come back to that. Well, um, James White had also testified that he lived beside Joseph in Navu. He kept his books. He saw Joseph practically every day. He testified that he had that Joseph had no other wife than Emma. Um, he saw Joseph and Emma interact with husband and wife. For example, she had to come to Joseph or to Joseph’s secretary to get money when she cause she helped with the business and You know, a wife needs to say, Hey honey, I need money if he’s the one that has the money, right? She had to go either to Joseph or to his secretary, and the records were kept in the books of the financial records. It was noted when Emma was given money. James White had testifies that Emma did that regularly, and no other wife did. No other wife was ever given money as a wife. There was no record of it. There were no interactions with any other woman in any way. And so there’s a strong testimony and you can find so many more. This is just one. So this versus William Clayton’s affidavit. OK. So all of this testimony, right? On the other side we have William Clayton. The sudden appearance of Section 132 in 1852 and William Clayton’s affidavit telling the story of where 132 came from. So let’s get into this. Remember, the very first um testimonies of women start coming about in 1869. I’m going to take time here to spell why that is. Brigham Young, the church in Utah, and Brigham Young as the head, was facing an existential threat. The federal government was coming at them, threatening all kinds of laws, and Brigham Young’s best defense was saying this is our religious right, right? This is our religious conviction. We have to do this because

[01:10:53] our founder did it. He had to prove that Joseph was a polygamist for to. his own validity, his own legitimacy as the next president of the church. He had to prove that Joseph was a polygamist. They also had RLDS missionaries coming out starting in the 60s that were gaining converts from among the saints saying, hey, Joseph was never a polygamist, so he had to defend his position. No, no, I am the rightful heir, um, because Joseph was a polygamist, that was his claim. And I I’m not arguing. I, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have a strong testimony of the beauty and goodness and the truthfulness of this church. So just because we had this happen in our past, I am not making any truth claims about the church. Separate that out. We have to look at truth rather than going, no, I believe this, so I can’t believe truth, right? M Yang in his own mind was facing an existential threat. He thought. The church had to have polygamy. He that was what he wanted to teach, and he thought he had to prove that that Joseph was a polygamist. So he doubled and tripled down on that. Now the church has gotten rid of polygamy, so the FLDS claimed to have inherited that polygamist mantle where we can see, no, polygamy never was part of what Joseph taught, never was part of the gospel. That doesn’t invalidate the gospel and the church as we have it. So anyway, we’re going to go. On to this affidavit and the problems with the affidavit. So Brigham Young started bringing forth all of these affidavits in 1869, right? William Clayton’s affidavit telling the story of Section 132 comes about in 1874, a full 30 years after Joseph’s death. Remember this entire time Section 101 is still in the doctrine and Covenants. Section 132 isn’t any. in scripture, it was never um canonized as scripture. They were living in opposition to their canonized scriptures throughout this entire time. Brigham Young was giving that like make telling stories about how Josepht wanted them to teach that the scriptures didn’t matter, the president of the church mattered. Joseph never taught that. Joseph didn’t believe it you can see again and again that he said no, we hold to these things that have been revealed. So, um. Let’s see, OK, so this was given 30 years after Joseph’s death, and I can’t find any support for any of his claims in this, in this, in the documents or anything that was claimed in his diaries. Like, well, I should add the church promised in 2017 to release the William Clayton diaries, right? That was five years ago, no sign of them yet. Patrick Mason said it’s OK for something to take this long that. I don’t know why you would promise it and have it be 5 years after. I’ve heard from other um church historians that actually it’s been put on sort of a temporary, I mean a permanent pause. It is that it’s um not that that it’s indefinitely paused and not they’re not planning to release it any longer. I don’t know. I guess we’ll have to see what happens, but in any case, we’ve been waiting for 5 years for the church to release it from when they promised to,

[01:14:05] and that was they didn’t even promise it until 140 years after William Clayton’s death, and 175 years after Joseph Smith’s death. So I think we have some reason to be somewhat suspicious about what might be in William Clayton’s journals, and if he really should have the credibility to Have all of the weight of the of the truthfulness of 132 on his shoulders. That’s where it is. He’s the only one that tells this story. So let’s go on and talk about the affidavit and see if we should believe it. So again, this was October 7th. 0 no, he claims that on October 7th, 1842. So in this affidavit, given the affidavit was given February 1618. 74, he’s remembering back to say that in on October 7th, 1842, Joseph Smith appointed him the temple recorder and private clerk, so he is the one that would have been making the records of all of the ceilings that would be there if Joseph were doing it because he believed his own doctrine, which he revealed in Section 128 after he was supposedly married to all these women, right? So, um, and remember there are no records. William Clayton didn’t make any records. So, um, he quotes, he quotes Joseph and says that he said, when I have any revelations to write, you are the one to write them. OK, let’s think about that. Isn’t that convenient because guess what, as we said, 127 and 128, those two letters written in September 1842, were the last revelations of Joseph Smith included in any scripture. Until section 132, and William, I mean William Clayton claims years later that Joseph told him, if I have any more revelations, you’ll write them. Guess which was the one revelation revelation written, Section 132. Are you getting what I’m saying? Like it’s a pretty convenient affidavit to claim 30 years after the fact, right? Um. And so, so we just have to remember that oh, the only other things that were added to the doctrine of Covenants were um kind of hodgepodges of letters that are really hard to go tease out for sections 129 to 131, you know, and then we have the very questionable 132 anyway, so that’s the he he says any revelations I’ll write them and the Only one he wrote was the supposed section 132. So that’s really interesting. Again, none of this can be verified in any other sources. It’s just William Clayton’s word 30 plus years later. He goes on to make many other concern um concerning and unsupported claims. He again claims that Joseph taught him frequently of this special doctrine. And told them it is your privilege to have all the wives you want. So we have another problem here. Joseph Smith is teaching this special doctrine to only the most special people, right? Brian Hill still keeps this like air of superiority and specialness going. He calls them polygamy insiders. He was a polygamy insider, so Lucy wasn’t, Hyrum wasn’t until much later on. Emma wasn’t until much later on. Lucy. Joseph’s mother wasn’t. Most of Joseph’s brothers weren’t, right, but William Clayton, this like disavowed scribe who didn’t have a calling other than that, who was let go because of his dishonesty,

[01:17:19] he was Joseph’s extra special buddy who got to hear all of this secret teaching that no one else got to hear and that they weren’t supposed to talk about. It’s kind of convenient after the fact, right, to be a polygamy insider, one of these special guys that got the special. Secret knowledge, even though Joseph consistently said, don’t listen to anything other than what we’re saying in public, and what’s in the scriptures, right? So, but, but, but William Clayton, we should believe him because, cause he was one of these special guys that Joseph taught, and it’s his privilege to have as many wives as he wants. And then, um, he goes on to describe the 12th of July, and that’s the private meeting with just Joseph Hiram and him. So it’s the three of them. Remember, um Hiram gave those strong, strong sermons months after this supposedly happened when he they’re in the upper room of the red brick store and Hirum comes to him and says, I, it’s such a clear doctrine. If you’ll just write the revelation, I know I can convince Emma, who, you know, by this time in 1874, the Emma. bad, the bad Emma narrative had been well established. In Navvo, it wasn’t established. All of these claims of Emma being this crazy jealous, all of these, um, pushing Eliza down the stairs, poisoning Joseph, none of that existed. She was the very highly respected and revered president of the relief Society who stood side. By side with her husband rode in all of the parades, was beloved, was honored, was sustained in her calling. That’s Emma and Navu. All of these other claims come much later. So, so, um, William Clayton in 1842 has access to all of these claims about crazy Emma, right? So he claims it’s just the three of them, and guess what? The other two are dead. Right, Joseph and Hyrum are dead. William Clayton is saying it was the three of us. I, um, we went for the first time in 8 years to Disneyland before my son left on his mission, and I just kept having to go through my head, dead men tell no tales from Pirates of the Caribbean like. You know, that’s pretty convenient that that he gets to tell the story for um what happened with the three of them and the other two are dead, and it all all comes down to him. So he claims he’s the only place we get this claim is this affidavit, right? He claims that um Hiram begged him to get the Yerman Thummim and write the revelation. Joseph said, I don’t even need the Yerman Thummim. I have it. I know it by heart, and I can say it, and he tells William Clayton to get pencil and paper cause remember he’s the special one that gets to write the revelation, even though according to James Whitehead, who was Joseph’s scribe, William Clayton had already been let go because of dishonesty, right? So, but this is after, after that, that he was already let go because of dishonesty and he’s the one that was supposed to write all the revelations.

[01:20:02] According to him, 30 years later, he gets pencil and paper. Joseph tells him the revelation that he hasn’t memorized. Now remember, he claims many times, William Clayton claims many times that Joseph knew this so well by heart because he’d had it for so long. But if he was given it years and years before, why is it talking about things happening with Emma right now, right? It goes on and talks, makes these threats against Emma, tells her not to take the offer Joseph May like it’s very pertinent to the time right now that Clayton is saying is happening right now, but he also claims it was given a long time before that. That’s the funny thing like it’s hard to be a really good liar and I don’t think Clayton’s a really good liar, so. Anyway, so that doesn’t make any sense at all. Then he says that Joseph has him read it back to him line by line, making sure it’s perfect according to his perfect memory. And then Joseph approves it, but then goes on to say, I could say many, I could write many more things about it, but that will suffice for now. So this perfectly memorized word for word revelation that was given years ago, yet speaks right now and makes threats to Emma of things going on right now, he could say many more things about it too, right? It’s ridiculous. And then, then he goes on to talk about that um he says that. He gave um Joseph gave it to Bishop Whitney and um and Bishop Whitney had Kingsbury make a a very careful transcript of it again, or a copy of it. So many problems there. How does William Clayton know? Was he there? Was he there when Joseph gave it to Kings to Whitney? Was he there watching Kingsbury make a transcript of it from Whitney and give that back to Whitney? This story is already established, right? So William Clayton is telling. Already established story in this affidavit. He wouldn’t have known what happened to it other than hearsay just like anybody else. And so, um, but it’s, but it’s him that we get this from that that we know for certain where 132 came from because of William Clayton’s testimony, which opposes everything else we know, and there’s no other verification for it. We can go back in all of Joseph’s records, these journals he had kept, nothing. There’s nothing. It’s just William. Clayton’s 1874 um affidavit. So anyway, it goes on from there. Oh, and then, and then because remember we already have the bad Emma narrative. So then Joseph says that Emma was nagging and teasing and whining and being so difficult that he finally gave in and gave it gave it to her and let her burn it cause he knew he could just remember he had it perfectly memorized so we could say it any anytime again. Also, Joseph Smith, who we also have stories of. It’s hard to know what’s true and what’s not, but we have stories of how he insisted that Emma be honored, that no one could say anything bad about Emma, and all of the stories that like with all of the lies that were told about Emma, they still have to claim how much Joseph honored and loved her, and yet. We claimed that he told the wrote this revelation, had it publicly read, right,

[01:22:58] that is so demeaning of Emma that that like even Jenny Reader, who wrote the newer biography of Emma says that it was never supposed to be read be read or printed publicly. So, you know, that’s her take on it, but anyway, it all is a big, big giant mess. There was one other point I was going to make. I’ll think of, oh, that he claims, according to the timeline he gives, Joseph Kingsbury would have had to carefully write that imperfect penmanship without a single mistake in like less than 45 minutes. It’s pages long. I dare anyone to go try to write it as fast as you can, not even imperfect penmanship flawlessly to see if you can do that in 45 minutes. There are so many problems with this claim. So anyway, that’s, that’s the claim, the affidavit we have from William Clayton. That’s all we have. That’s what it is. That’s why Joseph is a polygamist, because William Clayton, cause, cause a a supposed revelation came out of blue out of nowhere in 1852 and in 1874, William Clayton gave the history behind it and We believe that Hook line and Seeker, Sinker in complete opposition to everything that Joseph consistently taught. And then we have all of these, every single testimony. Can I, can I stress this enough? Every single testimony of Joseph’s polygamy comes after, comes from 1869 and later there was the Temple Lot case in 1890 where we get a bunch more claims. All of this comes later. So we’re going to talk about a few of the things to see again, who we should believe, who has integrity and credibility, right? We know from looking at Joseph’s life and all of his revelations that he was consistent. He believed his own revelations. He believed whether, whether or not anyone believes that he was a prophet of God, he believed he was a prophet of God, right? And so, um, anyway, this, let’s let’s look at um what these other people did. We have a lot of testimony of Brigham Young, um, talking about what’s the word he’s looking for? He’s revising, or maybe there’s another word, I’ll find it, but he’s revising church history, right? They’re going through, what we can find in his records that he worked on revising church history and you can see notes and edits all through it. So I’m gonna show you this one. We have One piece of, of, we have one quote from Joseph Smith supporting polygamy in his life, right? It’s the quote that Joseph F. Smith pulled out to prove that Joseph supported polygamy. We have this one quote we can find in our manuals. Let’s look at where this quote came from. This is the original um journal, the, the original that the scribes kept of Joseph’s activities. Remember he had those, those scribes employed for 3 years.

[01:25:42] Here is the original. It reads Evening at home and walked up and down the street with my scribe and gave instructions to try those persons who were preaching, teaching, or practicing the doctrine of plurality of wives on this law. Joseph forbids it and the practice thereof. No man shall have but one wife, so you can see, right, that was the daily record that was kept of Joseph Joseph’s activities. The law that he gives is Joseph forbids it, and no man shall have but one wife. That’s the law that God has given, right? That is what his record reads. Let’s look forward and see what happened, OK. Here is another copy of it. This is called a draft copy. So they made draft copies so that they could revise things, right? And you can see this draft copy. If you look at it, you can see where it says the original with breaks in it. a break between on this law and then a break going down, and then you can see the edit, the edits, right? You can see that on this law is crossed out and the other things that crossed out and then look at the new hand, a different handwriting that comes in. And marks where it should go. It crosses out. Joseph forbids it and the practice thereof. So now let’s read what it says after the revisions that the team led by Brigham Young made after they had finished revising church history, right? Let’s see what it said after it went through their hands. Um, evening at home. And walked up and down the street with my scribe, gave instructions to try those persons who were preaching, teaching, or practicing the doctrine of plurality of wives. For according to the law, I hold the key of this, the keys of this power in these last days, for there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys are confirmed, conferred. And I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time unless the Lord directs otherwise. Do you see, do you see that? I think that is one of the most clear examples of what we are talking about, of what happened. There was a clear pattern of Needing to do what was necessary to prove the church narrative, right? That was what mattered, that was the important thing. We can see it in so many different places. We go through these affidavits and there are just so many problems with them. So many of the claims don’t add up, the dates are wrong, the times are wrong, the stories are wrong. When, when you’re in a hurry to try to get all of these affidavits, you’re not even necessarily stopping to say, Is this plausible? Did you have another husband at the time that you claimed that you were Joseph Smith’s wife, right? Like they’re just getting any in their desperation for this existential threat they’re facing, their need to prove that Joseph was a polygamist. They are gathering whatever evidence they can. Gather, right? We have, we have so many different examples of this. Um, I brought up in a couple of my last interview, Sylvia Sessions Lyons, um, claiming that her daughter Josephine was Joseph’s daughter, and we explained that away going, well, she didn’t know cause she was apparently having sex with both husbands. Like, like that makes sense with 132 or with what Joseph was teaching.

[01:28:55] That’s the extent. We go to to try to believe this narrative. Can we stop? I think like really the evidence has gotten to me. Still, the important question is what does God teach? But you know, it’s really good to understand what Joseph taught consistently repeatedly throughout his life. We’ll go on in future episodes to continue to look at what Joseph taught and why we should believe him. And so, um, then we are left with You know, well, well, I’ll add when talking about Brigham Young that he also told all of these stories about Emma Smith, right? Remember at the time that Joseph died, Emma was still held in very high regard. She was mis she was treated badly by. Brigham, but the saints all thought very highly of her, and it wasn’t until they came out west that he’s and was so angry at Emma for not coming that we started to get all of the lies told over the pulpit about Emma pushing Eliza down the stairs, about Brigham knowing for certain that Emma was the most wicked woman in the world, about all the things that Joseph said to Brigham about Emma. You know, Brigham had this pulpit with no one to To keep him honest and so he was able to say Joseph taught me this. Joseph said this. Joseph, he got to be the one to define who Joseph was after the fact, right? Who whatever he said Joseph said, Joseph said, and that’s what it became, um, Emma poisoned Joseph. Emma, um, we already said pushed Eliza down the stairs. Emma, like again and again all of these claims that were told to make Emma. To be also some they made Joseph to be someone that he was not, and they made Emma to be someone that she was that she was not. And we still believe this narrative. I, I think that we shouldn’t. I think it’s time to really listen to the extent Joseph went and Emma went to try to prove that this was not the case. So then we are left with a difficult question, Well, why would they lie, right? Especially Um, like, like the women, we have a hard time saying why would the women lie? And I think this is an important question. I know that this is a long episode, but this is an important question to address. So we are going to spend a bit of time here answering this because even asking this question shows a tremendous lack of understanding of the situation that these women were in, what They were consistently taught to believe and what they felt they had to do and what they believed to be truth. So, um, we’re going to give some quotes about the teachings of polygamy, how women were taught to honor and obey and look at their husband. So Brigham Young’s very first sermon when he came into the Utah territory, this was given July 28, 1847. Remember it? They July 24th, 1847. This was just four days later. It was recorded by Wilfred Woodruff. He said, Be long, um, this is what Wilfred Woodruff wrote.

[01:31:54] He said, Be long spoken of giving a lecture to the females, and when he got time, he intended to do it. He spoke of the duty of man to his God, that he should love him with all his heart, soul, mind, and strength, and serve and obey him, and that the woman in like manner ought to obey her husband. Right, we can hear the echoes of that in the temple today, still, I mean, up until very recently, um, he goes on from there to put a woman in her place. She should never be concerned about what her husband is doing. She should never ask him about why he’s there when he’s not there, never be concerned about his presence or absence. Um, he goes on and tells them not to nag and tease and says, just keep his house and his clothes clean, cook his food. Take care of his children and thankfully receive whatever he, whatever you get from him. Never request more. So that’s, that was Brigham’s first sermon in the territory was about how relationships should work between men and women in that way. Um, let’s fast forward to a few others. This is Orson Pratt, given early 1857. Again, I’ll put all the links below. Dear brethren and sisters, he goes on, had I copied the style of a dress adopted by the fashionable world, I might have said, ladies and gentlemen, now this is an important one. You’ll notice he said, Brothers and sisters, go look at all of our general conferences, right? Does brothers and sisters sound natural to you? It does, because that’s what we always hear. We still say that, I think because of this talk, cause he says brethren and sisters and said it’s fashion. to say ladies and gentlemen, right? Do you ever hear gentlemen and ladies? You hear ladies and gentlemen, but you hear brothers and sisters. It sounds weird to say sisters and brothers. It’s very rarely said. I think maybe one time it was said by a woman. Go look through general conference and see that we always say brothers and sisters or brethren and sisters. And here’s what he says. I might have said, ladies and gentlemen, placing the fare in the van, but as this would only be to reverse the order. Our being ordained and established by heaven’s law, I have felt and still feel to observe the spirit of that law and that order, not only in my manner of address, but in all the very duties, responsibilities, and pleasures of life. So he goes on to talk about the world’s idea of chivalry, and he says the hypocritical respect lavished upon females, pushing them forward and in exciting and, and in so doing, exciting their Vanity like so much trash, flattery as food for the silly and shallow-brained, but a wise heart and a pure hand will never administer it. The order of heaven places man in the front rank. Hence, he is the first to be addressed. Brethren and sisters, woman follows under the protection of his counsel and the superior strength of his arm. Her desire should be unto her husband, and he should rule over her. He should rule over her. I will here venture the assertion that no man can be exalted to a celestial glory in the kingdom of God whose wife rules over him, and as the man is not without the woman, nor is the woman without the man and the Lord, it follows as a matter of course, that the woman who rules over her husband thereby deprives herself of deprives herself of a celestial glory.

[01:34:59] So there were, um, there are records of this time of visitors to Utah being shocked and appalled at how men would push forward first. They just had like. Plaks covering muddy, um, the muddy irrigation canals in the street and people visiting from out of town would expect chivalry, right? Like, like make way for a lady, open door for a lady. The men would just shove and go past the women were expecting. To wait until all of the men had passed. This was the actual teaching that got reflected in the culture in every possible way, including even crossing a muddy bridge. The men pushed their way first and expected the women to wait because they were second. I have to add that when I spoke to my mom about this, she told me that when she first went through the temple, the women were explicitly taught that they should always walk behind, not beside their husbands in the temple. She said, this is what women did for many, many years in the temple. It was the temple culture for women to walk behind. I have to believe that that was yet another echo of this same teaching. It’s, it’s very interesting to learn. Um, the women understood it well. Let me give you a few examples. This was Alice Johnson Reid’s Journal, and, um, again, I’ll have the links. These were included in a book called Isn’t One Wife Enough written by um Kimball Young. And so I, I think that’s his name, but I, I’ll have the link down below. You can read it free online. So this was after a sermon by Brigham. She said the principle is that a woman, be she ever so smart, cannot know more than her husband if he magnifies his priesthood. God never in any age of the world endowed woman with knowledge above the man. So I’m only reading you a few snippets again like it was the teaching throughout. This is Daisy Barkley, who was raised in polygamy, and she wrote, Polygamy is predicated on the assumption that a man is superior to a woman. Mormon tradition follows that of the early Hebrews. It teaches women to honor and obey her husband and to look upon him as her lord and master. Again, think of the temple. We, the covenants have changed over time, but I know that. You know, man, covenants to obey God and woman covenants to obey man to obey her husband. It’s, it was, it’s still been there. I need to acknowledge the huge improvements we have made in this regard over time, most particularly the enormous changes made in 2019, but also even just the. just made this month, these things thankfully continue to move us further and further away from the polygamist mindset of our past. And then, um, I’m going to read a few more. This is George Q. Cannon. So this is 1869 when we start getting the affidavits. So this is going on for decades. So this has been taught so long so that by the time we start getting these affidavits, how have these women been trained? He says, I believe the correct practice of this principle will redeem woman from the effects of that curse, namely that thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. All the evils connected with jealousy have their origin in this. It is natural for woman to cleave to man. It was pronounced upon her in the beginning, seemingly as a punishment.

[01:38:11] I believe the time will come when by the practice of the virtuous principles which God has revealed, woman will be emancipated from that punishment and that feeling. Oh, how magnanimous of him that. If they will be, if they will endure their punishment, well, now, some day they won’t be punished anymore, he goes on to talk about that. It was just taught everywhere that woman was to, without question, obey her husband. So I’m going to read a few more quotes quotes. You’ll remember Annie Clark Tanner, who wrote a Mormon Mother. We talked about her in another episode. I looked up some of her quotes again. Um, she talks about how a polygamist husband expected to be able to dic to dictate and be obeyed without question. There was to be no discussion, no explanation, no objection, just strict obedience, no matter the cost. She at one time it cost her one of her children’s lives. And so, um, let’s read some of her quotes. Polygamy is predicated on the assumption that man is superior to woman. The Mormon tradition teaches women to honor and obey her husband and to look to him as her lord and master. Women in polygamy were converted to the idea of the superiority of men. The priesthood is a spiritual power which purports to give man superior wisdom. Because of this superiority and power and authority, a wife, a wife was subservient to her husband. She’s writing this much after, after the manifestos, after polygamy has been ended, and she’s speaking about how she was trained because this, this is how she looked at her marriage. She’s reading some of her old journal entries and seeing how she was taught to think and how she did think. Um, she goes on later to say that was page 6060 to 62, this is page 116, 117. I was imbued with the old tradition from my religious training that man is superior to woman. He had privileges that the church denied to women. The idea reverts back to the old Hebrew philosophy which, as I mentioned, was embodied in Mormon doctrine. A woman should never oppose her husband as he was supposed to have superior wisdom. You hear the echoes from the writings of different women. It’s It’s just so dominant. And then another quote. This is page 169. Obedience was such a strong factor in the original Mormon philosophy. Obedience to the priesthood, to the authorities of the church, and to one’s husband was paramount. My husband and I were both a product. Of the ideal of our religion that man is superior to woman and that he should be obeyed. Some men loved the old tradition that man has a right to rule over woman. I didn’t dare to disobey my husband. It was, it was his right to command. It was my duty to obey. She goes on to talk about how that cost the lives of one of her daughters. Like it was, it was extreme. And then this is from the Women of Mormonism that we’ve talked about as well, um, by Jenny Anderson Frey. This is the beginning of chapter two. If this doctrine of women’s inferiority had not been rigorously enforced, rigidly enforced, polygamy would never have gained its present strength nor even have been established as an essential doctrine of the church. It was necessary to make women believe that she was an inferior being, a lower creation than man, that her only chance of salvation, her only opportunity of entering the gates of heaven, was as a satellite to add glory to a male saint. It was also taught and is still, that a woman cannot be raised from the dead except through a man.

[01:41:33] And in fact, The entire spirit of Mormon teaching so far as the rela relations of sexes are concerned, is man’s superiority to woman, mentally and morally as well as physically. Um, Analiza Young, who we were all taught to look at as this wicked, wicked woman, right? Now, I realized she was a courageous hero. I want to do an episode on her in the future. But this is what she wrote in um I think it’s called The 19th Wife, something like that. It’s Annaliza Young’s book. All the finer feelings and sensibility of man’s nature were killed by this system. He regarded woman’s suffering with utter indifference. He did not care for their infection. Their tears bored him and angered rather than touching him. He lost all the respect and chivalrous chivalrous regard which he once had for the sex. He was taught that they were his inferiors, dependent on him for everything, even for. future existence, that means in the next life. And he considered that it was sufficient that he gave them his name, the rest they might get for themselves. If anyone doubts any of this, you can read it in sermon after sermon. I’ve read many of them. This is one of the most accurate things you can read about polygamy and about what it did to men as well as to women. So, um, again, as I’ve said, we can see the echoes of it. This shouldn’t be hard to verify, right? Truly woman’s only currency with man or with God as she was taught was to perfectly obey her husband. Um, and so if you are in this mindset, taught this decade after decade after decade, and at that point, your prophet husband, who really isn’t a husband in any sense we would recognize, right, comes to you and says that God needs you to say this for the good of the kingdom. What what position are you in to even think freely, let alone act freely, right? You have been trained and you, I can see myself as a young woman or even a woman trained in this to just want to please and want to be righteous, and they were so treated this way. That this was easy to convince them of. I really believe it is if you consider, is it easier to convince a woman to be one of a harem living in poverty, destitute, right? Is it easier to convince them of that? Or I mean if you’ve already convinced them of that, how hard is it to say. God needs you to say this. Joseph was a polygamist. We just have to prove it, and I need your help, right? And so it is not hard to understand if you understand the culture they were in, to understand why they were so willing to say what they had to say. And so, um, the epiphany I had, I mentioned that I had a scriptural insight that was 128, which I hope you have paid attention to because it’s important. The epiphany I had was that I was always taught according to some of these journals that Brigham Young and Hebrewy. Kimball, or some Pratt to some extent, but mainly those two because of their chivalry and their love for Joseph Smith offered themselves as husbands for all of his widows, and that’s why. The women who had been married to Joseph Smith

[01:44:52] then married Brigham Young and Orson, I mean, and Hebrew C. Kimball, right? They had been Joseph’s wives and that’s why they became Hebrew C. Kimballs and Brigham Young’s wives. The epiphany I had is that the exact opposite is true. These were the women who were married to Brigham Young and to Hebrewy. Kimball. They were the women who had, who had to look to them for their complete support, who were trying to please them, who had to obey them, right? So they were the ones who then claimed to have been married to Joseph Smith. It wasn’t that these women were married to Joseph Smith, and so they married Brigham Young and Hebrew C. Kimball, and that’s why all of Joseph’s widows were married to Hebrew C. Kimball and Brigham Young. It was that Hebrewy. Kimballs and Brigham Young’s wives were the ones who could be convinced to claim that they had been married to Joseph Smith. I believe that the vast majority of claims we have of wives were married to those two men. We have a few other claims that come from letters saying things like, as Joseph’s widow, she deserves some. hair in her old age. So there was definitely financial gain and the I mean the desperation and the poverty. I can also see myself being in dire straits and if someone told me I had been Joseph’s wife, I could be cared for in my old age. OK, I mean, I, I can, I can see that, you know, I, I think we have to really get into who these women were the that what they were experiencing, not who they were, but the situation they were put in and what they were being. Taught consistently on every level that was their husband, their priesthood leader, and so that different we have it actually completely inverted. It wasn’t that these women. Were Joseph’s widows, and that’s why they married these men. It’s that these women were married to these men and so had to claim to be Joseph’s widows. It’s fascinating. And again, their claims don’t start until this much later, and there are all kinds of problems with them that um we can get into in future episodes. So again, to recap this, right, what is more logical, right? Again, Joseph was consistent in his understanding of the Bible, in his living up to his theology, in him believing and obeying the revelations from God that he brought forth. Except in the case of polygamy, right, does, does it make any sense that all of a sudden he was completely ignorant of the Bible? Remember how 132 doesn’t even know things like that. Isaac wasn’t a polygamist, and it just contradicts itself and contradicts the Bible throughout. Joseph’s revelations never did that. Joseph and Hiram taught consistently and repeatedly, and Emma. In opposition to polygamy, and it wasn’t until we get these later claims that hang on this very, very sketchy evidence. We shouldn’t even call it evidence, and so none of these women were ever thought to be Joseph’s wives until later by anyone, right? It it came as a surprise to everyone that was hearing it.

[01:47:59] So and anyone. That um were members of the church that didn’t come west, or they came west and then that came out in 152 and they left, right, because that’s not what we signed up for. And so I think we have to face this question honestly. We already know that polygamy isn’t of God. I hope we know that we’ve proven it. In this episode, I hope that you will agree with me that we have proof from Joseph’s own revelations throughout time. That anything that is claimed that he did with polygamy is not consistent with anything he said, did, taught, revealed it is not consistent with his character. It doesn’t make any sense and it hangs on these very thin threads of. Of really shaky credibility. So that was my long one year anniversary episode and happy birthday and happy Valentine’s Day. Well, happy birthday to me and happy Valentine’s Day. Thank you so much for sticking out this long episode. Again, please share this or share the information, share whatever you feel. Would benefit people like I do now feel let’s clear Joseph’s name, right? Let’s not falsely accuse him any longer. Let’s not believe lies. Let’s not believe the lie of polygamy and let’s not believe the lie of Joseph’s polygamy. So again. If we want this episode to get um more notice, please go ahead and subscribe to this channel. Please um like this episode, comment on it, share it, and let’s get, let’s get this moving. It’s time to stop believing lies. It’s time to let the false traditions fall away. We’re, we’re to the 3rd and 4th generation where we can stop living under these lies. That would be great. So thank you for joining me for this very special episode of 132 Problems. I will see you next time.

132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

54: Joseph wasn’t a polygamist! | 132 Problems Episode: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

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132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

54: Joseph wasn’t a polygamist! | 132 Problems Episode: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

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