Please consider supporting this podcast:

An in depth look at the story of David and Bathsheba. We learn why she was bathing on the roof at night, how Jesus viewed ritual cleansing, what Nathan was actually teaching David, and how it all applies to us today. Join me for a fascinating journey of discovery about Jewish culture, two of David’s most beautiful wives (Bathsheba and Abishag) and the impacts of an unrestrained mindset on Israel’s greatest king.

Summary

In this episode, Michelle Stone concludes her three-part discussion on King David’s polygamy, focusing on his relationships with Bathsheba, Jonathan, and Abishag. She critically examines how scriptural narratives have been misinterpreted to justify polygamy, particularly in the context of Mormon theology. The episode also explores lust, power, and the dangers of using David as a moral example.

Key Themes:

  1. David and Bathsheba: Examining the Biblical Narrative
    • The story of David and Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11) is often misrepresented, with Bathsheba unfairly depicted as a seductress rather than a victim of David’s power and lust.
    • Hollywood portrayals have contributed to this misconception, ignoring that David initiated the encounter, had Bathsheba brought to him, and later arranged the murder of her husband, Uriah.
    • Stone discusses Jewish laws on ritual purity, including mikvah immersion, to explain why Bathsheba was bathing at night and how David exploited his position.
  2. Nathan’s Condemnation and the Misuse of Scripture
    • The prophet Nathan rebuked David for his actions, yet some LDS interpretations twist 2 Samuel 12:8 to suggest that God approved of David’s polygamy.
    • Stone challenges this claim, showing that David’s accumulation of wives was in direct violation of Deuteronomy 17:17, which forbade Israelite kings from multiplying wives.
    • She critiques Doctrine & Covenants 132, which inaccurately states that God gave David his wives through Nathan.
  3. The Relationship Between David and Jonathan
    • Stone briefly touches on David’s close relationship with Jonathan, highlighting unusual covenantal language between them.
    • While not fully explored in this episode, she suggests Jonathan’s role in David’s life raises interesting questions.
  4. Abishag the Shunammite and David’s Final Years
    • In David’s old age, his attendants sought out a young virgin (Abishag) to care for him and “keep him warm” (1 Kings 1).
    • Stone condemns the polygamist mindset that treats women as property, comparing it to modern FLDS practices under Warren Jeffs.
  5. Mormonism’s Problematic Use of King David’s Story
    • The Book of Mormon (Jacob 2:23-24) explicitly condemns David and Solomon’s polygamy as an abomination.
    • Despite this, LDS leaders later used David’s example to justify 19th-century polygamy, showing a stark contradiction within Mormon teachings.
  6. Lessons on Lust, Power, and Self-Control
    • Stone argues that David’s downfall was not just polygamy, but unchecked desire.
    • She warns that desire, if not bridled, leads to insatiable hunger for more, whether in wealth, power, or relationships.
    • The Book of Ecclesiastes (traditionally attributed to Solomon) reflects on the emptiness of constant accumulation, reinforcing the need for self-restraint.
  7. Final Thoughts: A Cautionary Tale
    • Rather than being a model for righteousness, David’s life serves as a warning.
    • Stone urges listeners to reconsider how polygamy has been framed in Mormon theology and to reject the flawed reasoning that justifies it through David’s example.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to 132 Problems revisiting Mormon Polygamy, where we explore the scriptural and theological case for plural marriage. I’m so glad you’re here. I always recommend listening to these episodes in order starting from the beginning and going on from there. My name is Michelle Stone, and this is episode 24, the third and final part of David’s. Polygamy, where we’ll discuss Bathsheba, a bit about Jonathan Jonathan, and also Abashag, and look at what those relationships can teach us about polygamy, lust, and the dangers of setting David up as an example for us to follow. Thank you for joining us as we take a deep dive into the murky waters of Mormon polygamy. Thank you for bearing with me for 3 parts on King David. It is such a huge story that believe it or not, it was actually a challenge to get it condensed down into 3 parts. But this will be the final part and the part where we cover what I think is probably the most important aspect of David’s polygamy. And the second best known story about David’s life after the slaying of Goliath is probably the conquest of Bathsheba. So that’s what we’re going to cover today. We are all familiar with the encounter between David and Bathsheba that occurs in 2 Samuel, um. First, let’s briefly go over the story. Um, 2 Samuel 11:1, and it came to pass at the time when kings go forth to battle, skipping through that, David tarried still at Jerusalem. As we learned clear back in 1 Samuel 8:19 and 20, when the people were asking for a king, and also from the story of Saul, one of, if not the central important part of what a king’s responsibilities is for his people is to lead them in war. Um, let’s see, this is, yeah, 1 Samuel 8:19 and 20, nay, but we will have a king over us, that we may also be like all the nations, and that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles. David had ceased to fulfill his responsibilities as king, so he was not where he should have been. That’s the first thing that I think is good to notice. Then we’ll go on. 2 Samuel 11:2. So 2 Samuel 11 is the story of David Bathshe, but we covered the first verse. Here’s the second. And it came to pass in an even tide that David arose from off his bed and walked upon the roof of the king’s house, and from the roof he saw a woman washing her washing herself, and the woman was very beautiful to look upon. OK, this story has been fascinating to study in depth like so many of these. Um, first, I want to point out it is not terribly uncommon to hear Bathsheba described as a seductive temptress. Maybe to be blamed instead of David for luring David into sin. Um, for example, I’m just gonna show a clip of this 1951 film David and Bathsheba with Gregory Peck. It’s, you can go ahead and watch it. It’s not necessarily one I highly recommend. So here is, here are a couple of clips to show what the perspective I’m talking about. She would prefer truth to modesty, sire. Before you went away, I used to watch you every evening as you walked on your terrace, always at the same hour, always alone. Today I heard you would return and you knew that that you would be on your terrace tonight. Yes. I had heard that never had the king found a woman to please him. I dared to hope that I might be that woman. OK, so trying to look past the blatant racism and, you know, the sexism is just yak, uh,

[00:04:40] this isn’t a great part of Americana that I love, but we need to set that up as a baseline because those are some of the cultural interpretations of Abraham and Bathsheba, but the text tells a very different story. This is definitely a case of Hollywoodizing. A story and ignoring the text. So as we will learn about in a few minutes, first it was night, and David was in bed, but for some reason he got up out of bed and went to the roof where he saw Bathsheba and not only continued to look and lust, but took it many steps further. So to anyone inclined to focus on Bathsheba as a seductress, may I point out that in any situation, if a man sees a woman. Showering, bathing, dressing. Anything that would be done in private, it is his responsibility to have honor and to look away. It is crazy to blame a woman for simply living her life if a man chooses to be a peeping Tom, which is what David chose to be here. So, um, OK, but I want to get into depth in some of this cause I have learned so much. Researching Jewish culture and law has given me way more insight into this story. So I’m excited to share another fascinating journey. Um, going on with the story, 2 Samuel 11:4, and David had inquired after David had inquired about her, he asks who she is and been told um her name and that she was married to Uriah. Here’s the quote in verse 4. David sent messengers and took her, and she came into into him. And he lay with her. OK, we’ll go into the various elements of this verse because they are all important, including these next two parts, for she was purified for her from her uncleanness, and she returned unto her house, her house. OK, to understand what Bathsheba was actually doing, it was helpful to me to read Leviticus 15. Verses 19 through 30. I don’t love these verses. They deal with the rules around women’s periods under the extremely detailed and, and my opinion invasive mosaic law. But here it is. These are verses 19 through 24 that we’re going to read. And if a woman have an issue and her issue in in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days, and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. Now I want to point out that 7 days. After her period stops, so she has to bleed and then be done bleeding and then put apart 7 days, and everything that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean, and everything also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whoever, whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth anything that she sat upon shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and shall be unclean even to the even. And if it shall be on her bed or on anything that she sitteth when he toucheth it, he shall not, he shall be unclean until the even. And if any man lie with her at all and her flowers be upon him, flowers for some reason, my husband said maybe it’s supposed to be flowers. Because it’s uh how they interpreted period blood. He shall be uncleaned seven days and all the bed whereon he lies shall be unclean. So, OK, I just have to say, does it sound like this to anyone else? 2319. We have a 23. Thanks, guys. That was a close one. Oh Right, I, uh, so because I read that and I am so sorry to get into these topics, maybe I should have had a trigger warning, particularly for any men watching you.

[00:08:34] They don’t want to cover these topics, but it’s important in this story. I feel the need to explain a few things about periods in case anyone needs to hear it. Like I teach my children, well, I’m guessing that most children, most women find periods somewhat unpleasant. They are not gross or disgusting and should never be treated that way. Period blood is very clean and does not spread germs or disease. Obviously, a woman is not fertile during this part of her cycle, but there is no reason, usually no reason. That a man and a woman can’t be intimate during menstruation. So, um, I really try to teach my children to talk about periods and everything dealing with reproduction with great reverence and respect recognizing its sacredness. I believe we should never be grossed out or mocking of periods or anything else. They are part of the miraculous way God made our bodies. For with periods that God made women’s bodies with the potential to create life. So I, I have a little discussion I go into for my children to help them understand what’s happening in a beautiful, beautiful way. But I just want to point out that a period is a sacred part of the greatest gift God has given to humans. It is not gross, unclean, defiling, or even weird. It is biologically necessary, completely natural, and healthy, and spiritually important. OK, there’s the lecture. I’m sorry, I just had to counterbalance Leviticus 15. So I know that there is symbolic meaning, meaning to the mosaic law, but I am so thankful that we no longer teach that periods make women unclean. I think that is very damaging and destructive. So either spiritually or otherwise they don’t. In the law of Moses context, clean, I want to point out clean was supposed to mean fit for worship. So if you were unclean, you couldn’t enter the tabernacle or do any of the necessary rites. And it sounds like also touch anything that anybody else might touch or Around other people. Um, Miriam being put out of the camp for 7 days after she was struck with leprosy and then he healed, was following the same principle of uncleanness. So while it is discussing spiritual uncleanness, there definitely was, you know, it kind of seems to come from a motive of disgust to keep things away from you that you found, I don’t know, unpleasant. I, I think it was very Much written by men. So anyway, so um this that that’s the, that’s the foundation for what was happening with Bathsheba. Now a Jewish concept or cultural element called family purity, it has um a traditional word, grew out of this and is still followed today by observant Jews. This is quoting from, well, first I’ll describe the mikva. Um, the center point, central point of Jewish family purity is the mikvah. It’s a pool of water used for ceremonial cleansing, very similar to baptismal fonts actually, if you look at them, but with, but with a few extra rules of size and bills, and it must be filled with natural water, so usually rainwater. One who is impure or ceremonial ceremonially unclean before a. will be pure or ceremonial ceremonially clean after immersion in the mikvah. So this is quoting from a rabbinical explanation of the mikvah. From the onset of menstruation and for seven days after

[00:12:02] its end until the woman immerses in the mikvah, husband and wife may not engage in sexual relations. So husband and wife are actually not even supposed to physically touch each other. The technical term for a woman in this state is nida, literal meaning to be separated. Immersion takes place after nightfall, so no, it has to be at night on the 7th day, the 7th day after she stopped bleeding, so the 12th day is because they count, they’ve just assumed 5 days for the first part. And is preceded by a requisite cleansing. So it is important to point out that submersion in the mikvah is spiritual, not physical in nature. Before immersion in the Mikva, a Jewish Jewish woman must completely and like insanely wash. She must bathe for at least 30 minutes. She has to sit in the bath for 30 minutes. Um, then shower. After the bath, she has to shower and wash her hair. Then she has to thoroughly comb her hair. There could be a single tangle because the water has to be able to touch every strand. Um, then she has to wash and cut her nails. She has to thoroughly brush her teeth and remove anything from her body, including nail polish or chapstick or a wedding ring, anything that might keep water from any part of her body. She is not a, they’re not undressed in private, but in her robe, she must be checked to assure that she washed and combed her hair and did everything else sufficiently before she emerges. So it is very much not a physical, but a spiritual cleansing that is being imparted in a mikva. So learning about this entire perspective of uncleanness gives deeper insight into the woman. Um, well, this in clean this, the woman with the 12 year issue of blood who trembled and fell down before Jesus after being caught touching his hem. Ah, I just this story she hoped that she could hide. She didn’t want to be seen in public because she wasn’t supposed to be there. Aside from the awful physical effects, she had been unclean and excluded from society and human contact other than the physicians for 12 years. She was not supposed to be in public in any way and was definitely not supposed to touch a man. I love that Jesus in no way criticized her for defiling him. By touching him or considered himself to be unclean and in need of ritual cleansing. Instead he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort. thy faith hath made thee whole. Go in peace. That’s Luke 8:48. I love that. I love that he put this woman over this ritual. Um, I have to say also how thankful I am that Jesus rejected these Old Testament ideas of clean and unclean and ritual cleansings as false traditions. In addition to not recognizing them as with the woman with the issue of blood that he whom he healed, he also explained that clean, cleanliness and or purity has to do with our hearts, not with. Anything outward or ritualistic. When the Pharisees criticized him because his disciples were eating with unwashed hands. Now remember again, this wasn’t about germs or dirt or anything like that as we would see it. It wasn’t about physical clean, cleanliness. It was the cleansing demands of ritual purity. It was ritual and spiritual, not physical in nature. He really let them have it. So this is Mark 76, this is his response to them saying, hey, they’re not, I haven’t rally washed their hands as they should. He answered and said unto them, Well hath these Isaiah’s prophesized of you hypocrites, as it is written, this people honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. How be it in vain do they worship me,

[00:15:46] teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandments of God, ye hold the tradition of men as the washing of pots and cups and many other such things, such like things ye do. And he said unto them. And he said unto them, Full well you reject the commandment of God, that ye may that ye may keep your own tradition. Then he explained further. Um, oh, sorry, that’s, that’s the end. I’m having a rough time today that you may keep your own tradition. Then he continued in Mark Mark 7:20, and he said that which cometh out of the man that defile it is that which cometh out of the man that defileth the man, for from within, out of the heart of men proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness. An evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness, all these evil things come from within and defile the man. So he’s saying it’s what you do, what you want, what you seek, what you think about that defiles you, not these ritual cleansings or defilings. So, among other things for Christians, ritual purity is done away or fulfilled in Christ, and I am very glad to know that. So, um, OK. But we can learn more about this culture by looking at Jewish history, I mean, Jewish Jewish culture today. So the ritual cleansing or purification in the mikvah is most often required for women, but interestingly, it was also required historically in the days of the temples, um Jewish temples, it was required for priests before walking on the temple grounds. So this gives deeper understanding, I think, to Exodus 40, 12 to 13, which All who attend the temple are quite familiar with, and thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tambernacle of the congregation and wash them with water, and thou shalt put upon Aaron the garment of the garment. And anoint him and sanctify him continuing on that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office. So you can get a lot more info about the priestly garments, including the Efa that we talked about in a previous episode about David. If you cross reference with Exodus 294 through 7, I think it’s important to read both of those in conjunction because they’re telling us the same thing. So, OK, so it’s not, I don’t know, to me that was really cool to learn. I hope that that was interesting to you. Um, immersion in the Mikva, also this was another thing that I just have to include cause I find it fascinating. Immersion in the Mikva is also required when converted. to Judaism. I, I wondered for a long time. I have these questions, so I, but I, I wondered where baptism came from. Like before John the Baptist, I could never find any account of baptism in the Old Testament or anywhere that would help me understand. Where he got the idea or why the Jews recognized it, you know,

[00:18:36] it’s, it, it was such a strange element to if it was such a completely foreign element to their religion, where is it fully explained and where do we understand what it was he was doing? Does that make sense? I, I really studied that out for quite a while that I couldn’t find so. Learning about ritual immersion, the ritual immersion cleansing and the Mikva was so helpful and enlightening to me for these questions that I had years ago. So, um, and it’s also cool to see that our beliefs, even between LDS and Jews have much more in common than we thought we have, um, even. Baptismal thoughts and Mikvas that look almost that look look very, very similar. So, um, this is a quote, and then we also have this with Christians and Jews, this immersion that is required to to come into the religion or be born again. This is quoting from a discourse on the Mikva for new. It says it is the immersion in the mikvah where the spiritual shift actually takes place. A spiritual rebirth occurs during that Mikvah immersion, and the con convert emerges from the water of the mikva with a new soul and a new as a new person, much as the new born emerges from the water of the womb. So suddenly understanding this, John the Baptist’s baptism among among the Jews makes so much more sense to me. He was, I think, giving additional meaning and power to an already existent ritual or mitzvah or ordinance. So that was exciting to me. There’s a lot more. Information you can find and study out if you’re interested on mitzvahs, and Mikvas, the Mikva online. So, um, as I mentioned, an important part of woman’s mikvah or ritual cleansing is that it must take place at night after the sun has gone down. So this explains why Bathsheba was washing at night. She was observing Mikva. Its main purpose seems to be to prepare a woman to again be intimate with her husband after their 12 day separation. So, um, the next part, 114, 2 Samuel 114 going on with the story, David sent messengers and took her, and she came in unto him, and he lay with her, for she was purified from her uncleanness and she returned to her house. So I love that it points out that she was purified from her uncleanness. Like, aside from making it clear that she just completed her ritual washing. It, it seems to be teaching us that David had limits. He would not, he would commit adultery. He would sleep with another man’s wife, but at least he wouldn’t sleep with an unclean woman, right? Maybe I’m, maybe I’m reading too much into that, but, oh dear. So, OK, so we can be very clear on exactly what Bathsheba was doing and why she was bathing on the Roof at night on the roof, likely where the Mikva was was built so that it could collect rainwater since that’s what it was rally required to be filled with. And it also introduces produces a possible complication into David being up there after dark, where it seems he had a view of the Mikva, if that’s, if they, you know, if I’m interpreting this correctly, which it sounds like I am. Um, you know,

[00:21:49] what was he doing? Why was he there? So anyway, um, OK, going on, this verse also says that David’s messengers took Bathsheba, which sounds to me quite forceful or at least not optional. So although it says she went unto him, I guess I’m investigating still the ambiguity here of people wanting to read Bathshe. That, you know, some people claim that she was, was raped. Some claim that she was the temptress who caused all of this. So we’re just looking at the story to see what is possible. So, um, let’s see. So his messengers took her, and I don’t like the sound of that. So it does say that she went in unto him, which some claim, some used to claim Bathsheba’s compliance, but I think I think that’s a mistake because I think we can assume that since they took her, she likely had no choice but to go where she was told to go. So, you know, he was the king and never in any of these cases are any of the women, wives or concubines held accountable when they are taken by another king or another um member of man in the tribe. That’s not how it works. That’s not where the responsibility lies. So, um. Let’s see, that’s the other thing that I do find confusing though is that um Bathsheba was doing her going to Mikva, doing her ritual cleansing when her husband was away, and the sources I read said that that’s not necessary, that women usually wait until their husband is going to be home. So that’s a confusing thing that maybe could lend some credibility um if that if that rule of Mikva was the same at the time of Bathsheba, but I still think that to claim that she was intentionally seducing David is a mistake because first of all, what was he doing up there watching her and Even if you want to impugn Bathsheba for this, what’s the point? What good does that do? Cause what wife would excuse a husband’s infidelity because he said, I couldn’t help it. She came on to me like, no, sorry, a man is responsible to be faithful to his wife, no matter how much temptation, opportunity, or access he may encounter. I acknowledge David felt no necessity of being faithful to a wife, but he should at least have been faithful to the Lord. So, um, the Lord didn’t accept that excuse either. So I think it’s a mistake to try to blame Bathsheba in any way. But, OK, one interesting thing about Mcva and that is notable is that 12 days after Starting her period is usually typically a woman’s most fertile time in her cycle, which is when husband and wife come back together. So which also played an important part in Bathsheba’s story after she returned unto her house, which makes it very clear that David was fully and intentionally committing adultery and having a one night stand. He had no intention or ability to do anything else. He was just satisfying his lust. So, um, verse 52 Samuel 11:5 says, the woman conceived and sent and told David and said, I am with child. So now David is in trouble, right? And he began plotting. I’m not going to spend much time in the story. He brought Urih home from war, hoping he would go in and sleep with his wife. But Uriah was too honorable for that,

[00:25:07] even after David kept him a second night and got him drunk. So instead, David had him carry the orders for his own execution back to Joab, the military commander, reminds me of Rosencranz and Guildenstern and Hamlet, um, and Hamlet, the military commander who comp complied and went to great lengths. Including failing to conquer a city and losing several other valiant warriors in order to assure Uriah’s death. This was, this was a dark thing. So Bathsheba mourned the death of her husband as required, and then David sent for her and married her, adding her to his expanding harem. The good part about this story is that in 2 Samuel 11:27, it says the thing that David had done displeased the Lord. I’m certainly glad. So now in the next chapter, 2 Samuel 12, um, Nathan comes to call David out. So he tells him about the rich man who had exceedingly many flocks and herds and the poor man who had nothing save it, save one little ewe lamb which he had brought and Nourished up. And it goes on to, in a way maybe describe the relationship between, um, Uriah and Bathsheba. It makes it very clear, maybe Uriah was older and Bathsheba was younger, but in any case, he very much loved her and, um, and adored her and treated her well. So then, um, let’s see. David was incensed by what he was told and then horrified and cut to the core by the words, thou art the man. Then came the critical phrase for those who seek to justify polygamy. So this verse right here, I have no idea how many times I have seen this verse used to defend and support polygamy, but it happens constantly, continually, multiple times just this week. With the claim, well, here, I’ll read the verse, then I’ll go on. It’s 2 Samuel 12. I’m going to read 7, but it’s particularly verse 8. This is what Nathan is saying to David, speaking for the Lord. I anointed the king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul. Here’s the here’s verse 8. And I gave thee thy master’s house and thy master’s wives into thy bosom and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah. And if that had been too little, I would moreover have given thee such and such things. So, Clearly it’s the, the claim is that since David’s wives are gifts from God, clearly God condones, supports, and participates in polygamy, and commands polygamy is where we take that. So I have to admit this is a little bit frustrating to me because I see it as such a shallow and faulty interpretation and application of this extremely important scripture, which actually has a crucial lesson to teach us if We weren’t so blinded by our motivated reasoning that we refuse to see it, but I’m hoping that in this discussion, those who have been taught to view this verse as evidence of polygamy can come to see it differently. I um While this interpretation in my opinion leaves much to be desired, I can’t be too hard on people who. Who hold to interpreting it this way because sadly section 132 does the same thing. It is one of its many problems. So this is section 132 verse 39. David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power, and in none of these things did he sin

[00:28:46] against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife. Therefore, he hath fallen from his exaltation and received his portion, and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord. So apparently Michael. Along with the other wives, but I think it’s especially interesting about Michael, who was given by Saul to David, then given to another husband, then given back to David, David, apparently she’s now given to yet another husband, so. OK, I first want to explain the factual flaws here in this verse. And then I want to provide what I think is a far more accurate, inspired, and inspiring interpretation. I think what we are meant to learn by what David, by what Nathan tells David. So first, the record is clear that God did not give David his wives in the way people interpret this. Nathan, it’s in this it says that God gave David his wives through Nathan and other prophets. Nathan clearly had nothing to do with any of his marriages, and this matters because this verse is the one that polygamist leaders such as Ruling Jeff’s and Warren Jeffs, but also many others, this is the verse they use to claim the right to arrange and assign all marriages, which is just so awful in every way. So um I hope you all have watched the, well, I don’t shouldn’t say I hope, but I think it’s worthwhile to watch the um. The series Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey, I think that’s what it’s called. Um, I think it’s worth watching. So, um, to just get more insight into all of this. OK, so it is ridiculously easy to prove that God did not give David his wives through Nathan or any other prophet. By simply going through the list of his wives in the scriptures, so the first wife is 1 Samuel 18:27, and Saul gave him Michael, his daughter to wife. OK, first wife Michael given by Saul, not by Nathan, not inspired by God, right? Second wife is 1 Samuel 25:39. And when David heard that Nael was dead, he sent, I’m skipping a little bit, he sent and communed with Abigail to take her to him to wife. Second wife was Abigail. David took took Abigail, right? He got her himself. Um, I guess we could say that God having Nael die, you know, but still there was no profit there involved. David sent to Abigail. And took took her as a wife. Third wife um is is the next verse. It’s for Samuel 25:40. David also took ahinoum of Jezreel, and they were both of them his wives. So his third wife, he also took himself. We aren’t given individual information about his next several wives, and we don’t know how many there were. We just know that in 2 Samuel chapter 2, he had 2 wives, and by 2 Samuel chapter 3. As he was gaining more strength and greatness as a king, he had at least 6 wives. He had 6 wives who bore him sons at that time. We have no idea how many more wives he had, wives who bore him daughters or wives who hadn’t

[00:31:59] had children yet. So then we go back, the first wife again, remember Saul had given Michael to Another husband. So David takes her a second time, 2 Samuel 3:14, and David sent messengers to Ishbosheth, Saul’s son saying, Deliver me my wife Michael, which I espoused for me for 10 foreskins of the Philistines. Chapters verse 15. So Ish Besheth sent and took her from her husband and, and then gave her back to David. So OK, and as I said, we don’t know how many other wives and concubines he had, but we are clearly, clearly told how he got them, or, you know, how they were given to him, if we say 2 Samuel 5:13 and David took him more wives, more concubines and wives out of Jerusalem after he was come from Hebron. And then 1 Chronicles 14:3, these are two of several examples, and David took more wives at Jerusalem and David begat more sons and more daughters. So, OK, I hope that we have established, well, then the next thing is that in this, in this episode we are also saying how it’s clear that David took Bathsheba. That’s clear in the text. He took her in the same way, the only difference being that she already had a husband. So she was not available, which was his sin here, um, according to this idea. So it is important to again point out. That David was directly violating both the original commandment of God regarding marriage and also the law of Moses. All of those people wanting to claim that the law of Moses supports polygamy are completely ignoring. Deuteronomy 17:17, which is so clear, neither shall this is speaking of the kings. Neither shall he multiply wives to himself that his heart turned not away. Neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. What David and Solomon were doing as kings of Israel was in direct violation to the clear commandments of God, even in the Mosaic law. So they both broke this commandment blatantly. OK, so I hope that it is clear that neither Nathan nor God nor any other prophet gave David his wives if we’re going to actually refer at all to the text. So 132 is yet again wrong. We either have to see that 132 is mistaken or the complete Bible is just useless and we don’t have to pay any attention to it at all. So, Nathan was simply the one bringing this message to David. He wasn’t, so it’s strange that it said that he was the one that gave him his wives. He was just saying, you have many wives in a way that can, that has been badly misunderstood. So I think what he was really saying, which I think is quite clear, is, look how much you have, look how much you have been given or blessed with saying God has given you so many wives. is the same as saying you have been blessed with so many wives, right? You have, you have so much in the same way we could say to anybody who had accumulated massive wealth and worldly benefits, but was still taking advantage of those with far less, we could say, you have been given so much. Why are you stealing more from people who are poor? That’s That’s basically exactly what Nathan was saying, what he was saying to David, so. Uh, it’s actually and it’s actually profoundly important and um it’s tragic that we have completely missed what the lesson is

[00:35:32] here because we are so busy trying to justify polygamy, that that’s all we can see, so we’re not able to learn the lesson. I want to tell, I’m going to go over briefly what I think it is, but I think we can go much more in depth than this. Nathan is teaching David about the bottomless pit of desire, right? The insatiable hunger of lust, greed, and appetites, which can never be satisfied when we continually give in to them. It is easy for all of us to imagine that, um, having more of something, having more of anything will solve our problems or make our lives perfect. But it, it never will, it never does, because when we are driven by desire, enough is never enough. I hope most of you have lived long enough to experience that, right? As soon as you get enough money to solve one problem, you immediately need to start getting money for the next problem. You always are in um In some level of need or whatever it is, whatever we are seeking as soon as like if you have any kind of a Facebook account or social on social media or if you’re doing a podcast, as soon as you get more followers, what do you want? More followers, right? It’s never like, oh, now I’m good, right? Or whatever it is. So please share, right? Share and let more people subscribe so I can keep. Giving in to my desire. I’m, I’m totally kidding there, but it is true. It’s really a point that I think we have to pay attention to what was being taught here. David had practically no limits. He could literally have whatever he wanted. It was all there for the taking, including all the wealth and all the women of Israel and the surrounding nations. He was not accustomed to limits. So, um, he could have anything he wanted except another man’s wife. So even with all of his power and all of his abundance, he still was dissatisfied. He still hit a limit that he couldn’t abide, and he was bested by desire for something he could not have. God told him, if your wives were not enough, I would have given you more, meaning David could take an unlimited number of women. He could he could take any woman that he wanted. But that was not enough because there were still some women he couldn’t have. There was at least one woman he could not have, and he couldn’t abide that. There’s so much more to this concept. We’re going to do a future episode that I think will be called polygamy, lust, and Adultery that will go much deeper into these ideas. I think it’s really important to talk about the different training that men get through monogamy or through polygamy, and I think it’s really important, it really matters. So we’re going to cover that more. And, and we’ll, we’ll come back to this and discuss it more in depth. But for now, I hope we can see the lesson that Nathan’s response to David’s sad experience with Bathsheba was intended to teach him, which he sadly up to that point in his life had completely failed to learn that passions must be bridled, that This will be familiar that desires,

[00:38:43] appetites, and passions are to be kept within the bounds the Lord has set. That is an essential crucial element of any kind of life of discipleship. And, um, you know, 11 thing, fire, right? Fire is good for cooking, but it has to be carefully contained or it can burn out of control and destroy everything in its path. That’s what we need to learn here. Um, so, moving on, again, we will go more into depth than that at at a later time, but David’s punishment was far more harsh for Bathsheba. It was the death of her newborn son. In order to punish David is how it’s framed by Nathan. And so anyway, Beth, I, I just, my heart breaks for these women, you know, I, I just we need to care about women, right? Not just see the story through the eyes of men. So Bathsheba had a second son, Solomon, who she, along with Nathan, strategically ensured would inherit David’s throne. She also had two two other sons, and other than that, we don’t know much about her life. That’s pretty much all we know. It does seem, it does seem that David learned at least some of the lesson God through Nathan was teaching him. At least there is no account of him ever again taking a married woman. And um Ecclesiastes has several verses. Some say that David wrote that, some say that Solomon wrote that. I don’t know that we know for sure, but I think that this is interesting. It has several verses that preach a very similar lesson to what Nathan was teaching, Ecclesiastes 2, which, by the way. Ecclesiastes 2 and a lot of ecclesiastes are just excellent discourses on nihilism, which is something that many people are struggling with today. So I recommend if you are kind of feeling that everything is pointless, nothing is true, there’s no purpose, right? Ecclesiastes is a good place to spend some time. It’s amazing how these ideas that we have are not new, right? They’ve been around forever. So, OK, so the entire verse, I mean, the entire chapter talks about just the constant accumulation of Everything imaginable, just acquiring more and more and more, and it continues in verse eight, and I gathered me also silver and gold and the peculiar treasure of kings and the provinces skipping to 9. So I was great and increased more than all that was before me in Jerusalem. Also my wisdom remained with me, and whatsoever mine eyes desired, I kept not from them. I withheld not my heart from any joy, for my joy rejoiced in my labor. For my heart rejoiced in all my labor, and this was my portion of all my labor, so he can have anything he wants, right? He’s, um, then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought and on the labor that I had labored to do,

[00:41:31] and behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun. So even with full unlimited access to whatever he could possibly desire, he was left dissatisfied, unfulfilled, miserable, seeing no purpose or joy in life, constantly. Living life, feeding appetites and seeing that as the only purpose of life or the main purpose of life does lead to nihilism and despair. So again, we’re going to cover these these concepts further in another episode. So, OK, I was also planning to discuss Jonathan, but this is already too long, so we’ll skip it other than To repeat what we have said in previous episodes that we need to be extremely hesitant to set David David up on any sort of pedestal as any sort of hero or role model to emulate. I think we should be very careful to avoid doing that. In general, with the Old Testament and with our leaders, I just don’t think God wants us to put people on pedestals in general, but um, I’ll say particularly with David, so Um, if you can, if you can manage it, the, the Gospel library app on your phone seems to still be working to be able to search the scriptures by keyword, but the. Church website. I’m gonna cry. I hate that they made these changes and I’m just desperately hoping that they will change it back. But if you can, can search um the Old Testament for for Jonathan, and starting in 1 Samuel 13 through 2 Samuel 1, there are a few later on that through that, you can read the exchanges with David and um with David and Jonathan, and The covenants they make, it’s very unusual for men to make covenants to one another and That, um, I think, I think the most important verse to pay attention to as you do that study is 2 Samuel chapter 1, particularly verse 26, and a very interesting possibility emerges that we would be hard pressed to disprove. Um, people want to make claims about David and Jonathan that I haven’t been able to find. I, I didn’t know it until I was reading this. I was as I was studying it, I was like, What’s going on here? What’s going on here? And then I learned that other people have interpreted it this way, and I couldn’t make claims to disprove it. So the main thing I want to say, I want to move on, is to say we shouldn’t put David on a pedestal. We shouldn’t claim that he is some Um, you know, some moral example that we should follow cause it just will cause us problems. So we’ll move on from that for now. Anyone who’s interested can study it further. But there is one more thing I do want to quickly discuss before we move on from David cause I think it matters. And forgive me, you know, if you think I’m being um too harsh, then, you know, please interpret it differently. This is just how it strikes me as I am really reading and getting into these scriptures. So as a very old man, David was starting to to decline, and he could not keep warm. So, um, if you,

[00:44:42] if you had an aging father or a grandfather who was chilling. Like what would you do, right? I, I, I mean, maybe keep blankets by the fire and keep warmed blankets on him. I could see doing that. Make him some hot soups and stews and hot drinks, teas and hot chocolate to to keep him warm. And if he was still miserable, maybe like read to him or, you know, talk to him about things he’s interested in today turn on some football for him. If that would help, right? Like, I’m thinking there are ways we can take care of suffering old men, right? Um, so, but not David. So it was this is 1 Kings chapter 1 verse 2. Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be brought for my lord the king, a young virgin, and let her stand before the king and let her cherish him and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat. OK, so they sought this is verse 3, so they sought for a fair damsel throughout all the coasts of Israel and found Abhishaag a Shunamite and brought her to the king. So I know that’s an unusual name, but I’ve thought so much about Abigail, I mean, Abhishaag the Shunamite that I’ve just fallen in love with her and her name, and I just think this sweet little girl, um, and the damsel was very fair and cherished to the king and ministered to him, but the king knew her not. So, OK. I think we should not gloss over this. I just have to find myself asking what kind of a man in his very, very old age wants and takes a beautiful young girl to cherish him and to minister to him. And I can’t help like knowing the way that Warren Jeffs and that he and those like him interpret those words makes this even more troubling, what it means to minister. To the, to the leader, uh, um, David was very old, so we shouldn’t read too much into his failure to consummate. I think that I, I, I don’t think it was an intentional gesture, gesture of gentlemanly restraint, knowing David’s history, right? And, um, I, I think it’s a mistake to read it that way. I know we might want to say, um, people will want to say times were different, we shouldn’t judge them and There is truth to that in applications, but really here, really like the FLDS were in a completely closed off culture with little to no access outside, right? People were raised completely in that culture. So does that make what Rulon and Warren were doing, taking, taking young girls as wives who were decades younger than them, does that make that OK? Like No, right?

[00:47:38] No, no, this isn’t one of those. Well, we need to consider the time. No, wrong is wrong. There are times that wrong is wrong and what, and this was very, very wrong, and so, um. For me, I mean the best term, the term that just kept coming to mind as I was reading this was dirty old man, and that was putting it like too mildly, too nicely. No politician or corporate leader in our day has anything on David. This, this is the situation. So after David’s death, Abbashhaag, the exquisitely beautiful girl, was used for a ploy in the struggle for the crown, but ultimately we must assume she was inherited by the next king. One as one of his harem of 1000. So that I just wanted to cover really quickly to again say that while David learned his lesson, he still had this polygamist mindset where women And girls were his for the taking for what purpose they could fulfill for him, and that is, that was the view and the perspective, and that is the polygamist view and perspective that I think we absolutely and completely need to reject as the falsehood, the utter corrupted falsehood that it is. So, OK, wrapping up the story of David should, I believe, be viewed in large part as a cautionary tale. We have definitely looked into some of the darker aspects of David in these episodes. So we need to remember that he was not an outright villain with no redeeming qualities. He definitely had a lot of good elements too. But the more that I have learned about him, the more clear it has become, again, that we should absolutely not view him as any sort of moral example that we should follow. We should not put him on a pedestal. We should not seek to use his example to justify any of our actions. His privileged ability to live without any restraints or limits did not actually serve him at all well. I hope as much as anything for me that these episodes have served to increase our appreciation for the inspired words of the Book of Mormon. This just The Book of Mormon is the only place in script in all of Scripture that accurately addresses David’s polygamy, and I think that’s so important and amazing. Jacob 2:23 and 24. For behold, thus saith the Lord, this people begin to wax in iniquity. They understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms because of the things which were written concerning David and Solomon, his son. Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines. Which thing was abominable before me, sayeth the Lord. Only in the Book of Mormon is this called out as the abomination that it was. And so, um, reading that in context of what we have learned about David makes me just, I don’t know, just increases my love and appreciation for the Lord and for the Book of Mormon, um. You know, it’s, it’s really good to read that really healing to our souls to go, OK, God’s not OK with this. This isn’t good. So God continues on with

[00:50:55] explaining that he intentionally brought the children of Lehi out of the land of Jerusalem, so that they wouldn’t do the works of David with no exceptions. There are no exceptions to this clear commandment from God. Please go back and watch the um. The episode, it might even be the 2nd episode on 2 Jacob 30, if you haven’t watched that one yet. So how strange that even with these clear, incredibly clear, um, unmistakable teachings that we have uniquely in the Book of Mormon. Still in our church history, we did the same thing, the same thing as the children of Israel, the same thing as David and Solomon. I just find that amazing, just truly amazing. I very much hope. That we can go forward learning to be more wise. So thank you so much for joining us for this episode. We will be back next week. I’m Michelle Stone and this is 132 Problems.