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We’re taking a deeper look at Jacob 2:30, the famous loophole to God’s prohibition on polygamy.

Summary

In this episode, Michelle Stone conducts an in-depth study of Jacob 2:30, a key scripture often cited to justify Mormon polygamy. She challenges traditional LDS interpretations of this verse, arguing that it has been misunderstood and misapplied to defend polygamy as a divine commandment. By analyzing scriptural context, key phrases, and historical application, Stone presents a compelling case that Jacob 2:30 actually condemns, rather than endorses, polygamy.

Key Themes:

  1. Jacob 2:30 – The Loophole That Justified Polygamy?
    • The verse states: “For if I will, saith the Lord of hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.”
    • Many LDS members interpret this as God reserving the right to command polygamy, but Stone argues that this interpretation is flawed when viewed in full context.
    • She refers to Jacob 2:27-35, which explicitly condemns polygamy, making it illogical to view verse 30 as an exception clause.
  2. Breaking Down the Key Phrases of Jacob 2:30
    • “Raise up seed”
      • Traditionally understood as increasing birth rates, but Stone argues it means creating a covenant people rather than simply producing offspring.
      • 1 Nephi 7:1 and Jacob 2:25 show that God led people out of Jerusalem to “raise up seed”, meaning to establish righteousness, not polygamy.
    • “Command my people”
      • The entire chapter is a commandment against polygamy, making it unlikely that God is contradicting Himself in verse 30.
    • “These things”
      • The phrase “these things” appears multiple times in Jacob 2, and each time it refers to sinful practices, particularly polygamy and pride.
      • Stone argues that the common interpretation that “these things” refer to God’s commandments is incorrect—it actually refers to sinful traditions that Jacob condemns.
  3. The Book of Mormon’s Consistent Anti-Polygamy Stance
    • Jacob 2:24 explicitly calls David and Solomon’s polygamy “an abomination.”
    • King Noah’s polygamy in Mosiah 11 is presented as a sign of wickedness and corruption.
    • The Jaredite kings (Ether 10:5-6) practiced polygamy, but their reigns ended in rebellion and destruction.
    • Nowhere in the Book of Mormon is polygamy depicted as righteous.
  4. Polygamy’s Impact on Women: The Emotional and Spiritual Toll
    • God condemns polygamy in Jacob 2:31-35, stating that He has “seen the sorrow and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people.”
    • Stone highlights how historical and modern accounts of polygamy consistently reveal emotional suffering among women, proving that Jacob 2’s warnings were justified.
    • She argues that if God’s reason for forbidding polygamy is its harmful effects on women, it is contradictory to assume He would later command it.
  5. The Bigger Question: Does God Change His Laws?
    • Stone challenges the idea that polygamy was an “Abrahamic test”, arguing that God’s laws are consistent and eternal.
    • If polygamy was once an abomination because it hurt women and children, why would God later command it?
    • She urges listeners to reconsider whether God would truly give a commandment that contradicts His previous teachings and leads to suffering.
  6. Final Thoughts: Studying Jacob 2 Without Bias
    • Stone encourages listeners to study Jacob 2 carefully, considering the entire chapter’s context rather than relying on isolated verses.
    • She acknowledges that this discussion challenges deeply ingrained beliefs, but she believes that truth-seeking requires questioning long-held assumptions.
    • The episode concludes with an invitation to join the next episode, which will explore God’s original design for marriage as established in Genesis.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to 132 Problems revisiting Mormon polygamy where we study the scriptural and theological case for plural marriage. Please remember to listen to these episodes in order. If this is your first time with us, welcome. Please go back and first listen to episode one and then come back here and continue on. This is episode 2, the loophole, where we’ll do an in-depth study of Jacob 230. Thank you for joining us as we take a deep dive into the murky waters of Mormon polygamy. If there is one verse that is the most pertinent to Mormon polygamy other than 132 itself, it’s Jacob 2:30. For if I will sayeth the Lord of hosts, raise up seat unto me, I will command my people. Otherwise they shall hearken unto these things. This is where we get our understanding that God sometimes commands polygamy and sometimes doesn’t, and I think our understanding, at least the understanding I had that polygamy is primarily about having a lot of children and um. I think that this verse, I hadn’t questioned it. This was the verse that my husband actually brought into me the day that he said that he was questioning whether God was actually behind polygamy, and um I started to study it in context, and I think that that’s the key is looking at this verse in context. Let me say, there are so many different things to talk about in this podcast that it’s going to be a little bit hard to organize all of them. And um we’re going to start here because it’s where I started, but there are so many other things that we need to talk about, which is why, well, you know, I’m curious to know if you guys all understand why it’s called 132 Problems. So why don’t you go ahead and comment if you understand the title of this podcast, because I’m hoping it’s clear and not too cryptic. And also, as we go, I just wanted to invite. This to be a discussion. There’s no way that I know more or even as much about polygamy and the theology behind it as many of the rest of you. So I would love it if you would share your thoughts, the things that really maybe give you answers or that you agree with, and also whatever questions you have or things that you really disagree with. I think that this can be most useful if we have it be somewhat of a discussion. So with that said, let’s go ahead and dissect Jacob 2:30. There are some key words in here that I think are really important to help us understand what I believe God is actually saying here. And so the first word, well, I’ll tell you the three things we’re going to look at is raise up seed. And then command, and then the last one is these things, hearken unto these things. Then after we do that, we’re going to put it in context with the verses that come before and after it because As I did this, I just became shocked that we have misunderstood this so badly, because it seems once you understand it in context, it seems impossible to misunderstand it, or at least very difficult. I really believe that in the that that God Gives us some rope in the scriptures and lets us have that, you know, there’s some amount of um ability to interpret in different ways and sometimes God, I just kind of the way I say it is God gives us enough rope to hang ourselves. And so, um, so I want to talk about this now. I, I want to do a little sidetrack first and then we’ll go back to Jacob 2:30. But I again want to just say how, how much I love and respect my polygamist friends that I have known and those who want to serve God with all their heart, mind and strength. As I thought about when I used to be so committed to and converted to um the idea of polygamy, it really was about having an opportunity to show God that I wanted to. That I wanted to live by every word that proceedeth forth for the mouth of God. That’s in Doctrine Covenants 84 and also

[00:03:59] um Abraham 3, and it said, and we will prove them herewith to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them and For those who really um have a testimony of God and a desire to serve God and to be counted as valiant, polygamy is a great thing to have out there to say, oh, I want to show that I would be obedient. So I really believe that a lot of the people who are living this law or who are um hoping to have the opportunity to live it, that that’s where their hearts are and that’s where they’re coming from. And I just have so much respect for that. And, um, that’s where my heart is too. So these have kind of changed for me to say, am I willing to listen to God even if the traditions I was raised with are incorrect? Am I willing to to change my mind to harken more closely to God? So that’s where my heart is, and I just invite each of you to, um, withhold judgment from everybody because I really believe there are people who have answers to. Enter polygamy as they pray prayerfully about is this what I should do and I, I just think that God works with each of us where we are in our individual circumstances and um allows us all to learn at in our own way and there are so many different pieces of knowledge that we need that if we all were on the same path we couldn’t get all of the knowledge and so um. So anyway, I, I just, I’m sharing what I have learned, but I, I want there to be mutual respect and I don’t want anyone who is living in polygamy to feel like she’s saying our life, our life is wrong because I really am withholding judgment. What my goal is. is with so much respect for everybody in their different life circumstances to say what do I believe that is the eternal truth of God that has been revealed to man. So that’s where I’m coming from. I hope that we can all be on the same page there. Um, so anyway, let’s go ahead and start with the word command. It says in Jacob 2:30. Um, for if I will, sayeth the Lord of hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people. We’re starting with this one, not because it’s the most important one, but just because it’s the shortest discussion, kind of the easiest one to start with. So the thing that’s interesting to me is the way I was interpreting this, I thought, OK, so God will command his people at a different time if he wants them to listen to him. And as I’ve read, as I’ve studied this in context, I realized God is commanding his people right here. God is saying, I want to raise up see unto me, so I’m commanding you, and I have commanded you, and I want you to listen to me. And Jacob is simply repeating those commands of God. So if we look at verse 9, it says, wherefore it burdeneth my soul that I should be constrained because of the strict commandment which I have received from God to admonish you, to admonish you according to your crimes. In this, um, in Oh sorry, I was just getting a notification. In this chapter. Jacob is talking to the people, um, I believe at the temple, but he he mentions that he wants to give them uplifting, encouraging, an encouraging sermon,

[00:07:08] and instead his heart is heavy because the Lord has commanded him to call them to repentance because of 22 sins specifically. The first one is pride. They’re starting to have some different classes and feel superior to those who are who are more wealthy. And then the second one is desiring to take wives, many wives and concubines. And so, um, God, so right here, God has commanded Jacob to teach the people. Verse 10, it says, but notwithstanding the greatness of the task, I must do according to the strict commands of God and tell you concerning your wickedness and and abominations. So God here. He is commanding his people, right? So God is wanting to raise up seed, so he is commanding his people. It’s not that God will command His people another time. Also, God had previously commanded his people. Verse 34 says, And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our Father Lehi. Wherefore ye have known them before, and ye have come unto great condemnation, for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done. So they’ve already been commanded, and here he is restating the commandment. God has commanded him to restate the commandment. The people here are being commanded and Here and, and here is what they are being commanded. Verse 26 and 27 says, Wherefore I, the Lord God, will not suffer that these, these people shall do like unto them of old. Wherefore, my brethren, hear me and hearken to the word of God, for there shall not any man among you have, save it be one wife and concubines he shall have none. That is a pretty clear commandment that God is giving right here so I just wanted to put the word command in context of what is currently happening now we’re going to go ahead and look at the words these things because in the way that um. I call this the loophole because God is clearly commanding as people, but there’s this loophole to these commandments that give us permission to ignore these commandments if we assume that God wants us to ignore these commandments, right? So, so, um, that’s why we’re calling it a loophole, and these things is a key word. It says, for if I will sayeth the Lord of hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people. Otherwise they shall hearken unto these things. So in this interpretation, the interpretation that is the loophole, it is saying these things are the commandments God is giving here. So if I, if I want to, I will command you, and you can ignore all of this. But if I don’t specifically command you. Then you pay attention to the things that are being taught here. That’s the way that we are usually encouraged to interpret it. But again, I think if we look into it in context, a very different picture emerges. Jacob actually uses the word thing or things or these things several times in this chapter, and they all refer to the same thing. They all refer to the abominations of old. Um, let’s see, Jacob 2:14, and now my brethren, do you, do you suppose that God justifieth you in this thing

[00:10:20] that’s in their pride and in their judgment and being unkind to others who have less than they have? Behold, I say unto you, nay, but He commandeth you, and if ye persist in these things, His judgments must come speedily, must speedily come upon you. So there you can clearly see that these things refers to the abomination. And then, um, again, speaking of pride and wealth in verse 21, pride in their wealth, do ye do ye not suppose that such things are abominable unto him who created all flesh? You can go through the entire chapter. You can search the word thing on LDS.org. They have that great keyword finder, and you can search for a thing. I think it comes up 9 times in the chapter. And um they all anything that is pertinent or relevant in any way refers to the sins that Jacob is talking about. So another example is um verse 23 where it says, um, these people began to wax in iniquity. They understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms because of the things which were written concerning David and Solomon, his son. So things already is emerging with a very clear picture that is, it is referring to the things God doesn’t want us to do that the people in the old world were doing. Verse 24. Behold, oh, behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, sayeth the Lord. And then verse 30 comes a little while after that. Then we’ll look at verse 34. And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our Father Lehi. I already read this one because it has commandment, but it also has things wherefore ye have known them before and ye have come unto great condemnation, for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done. So I think a clear picture emerges of how Jacob is using the term these things in this entire chapter. So it really is not reasonable to take this one verse when it says these things and reverse it, apply it to these things are the righteous commands Jacob is giving us in that one verse, when in the rest of the entire sermon these things refer, refers to the abominations of old that Jacob is commanding the people to repent of and to not continue it now. The most important one in my opinion is raise up seed. This is the one that really got me because it just makes everything so clear for me. So I always interpreted raise up seed as multiply, have children, right? So we’re going to look at it two ways. First, we’re going to look at the words raise up seed, and then we’re going to look at it as a synonym for multiply. So Jacob 2:25 is the one that was the most critical for me to understand what God means by the term raise up seed. So if you look at 225, that’s just 5 verses before verse 30, the one we’re talking about. Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem by the power of my arm that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph. Raise up. Raise up a people and raise up seed are synonyms, and it means, I believe, to raise up a covenant people. Here he is reestablishing a new civilization in his covenant. He is raising up a covenant people that just goes along with so many other scriptures to explain very clearly what this means. And um, oh, let’s see where first Nephi 7:1. I loved when I found this because it just. Really made it clear that through Lehi and the Nephites, well, the Lehites and then and then the Nephites specifically,

[00:14:13] God is raising up seed unto himself. So first Nephi 7:1. is when Lehi is commanding Nephi to go back to Nephi and his brothers to go back to Jerusalem to get Ishmael and his daughters. And um let’s see, after he’d made an end of prophesying concerning his seed it came to came to pass that the Lord spake unto to him again. Saying that it was not meat for him, Lehi, that he should take his family into the wilderness alone, but that his sons should take daughters to wife, that they might raise up seed unto the Lord in the land of promise. So that makes it very clear that God with the Nephites is wanting to raise up seed. So raise up seed unto Himself. So again, it’s not some other instance. If in some other time I want to raise up seed, then. I will tell, I will command you to ignore these things at right? So you can see that right there with Jacob is saying, God. Brought you and your forefathers to this land so he could raise up seed to himself, and he commanded you, so you need to hearken because he’s done this with you. I hope that that is, that is making some sense. Let’s see if there was anything else I wanted to say. Well, OK, so that’s all we’re going to look at with the term raise up sea, and again, I invite you to go ahead and search that term. In um the scriptures, I will say in the Bible it’s used a few times in the Old Testament and the New Testament with a different, um, with a different purpose, a different context that we’ll get into in a later episode. But as far as the Book of Mormon talking about raising up seed raising up a covenant people into God, it’s pretty, it it it is universally used in this one way. So now I want to look at it as a synonym for multiply. Because that’s what I always was taught that it meant. And um it’s really interesting because there have been People throughout time who have been commanded to multiply, right? So we can start with Adam and Eve and um this is Genesis 1:28 also Moses 2:28 and Abraham 2:28, and I, God bless them and said unto them, be be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. God commanded Adam and Eve to do that, and they did, um. Moses 5:2 is an example of them fulfilling that in monogamy, and Adam knew his wife, and she bare unto him sons and daughters, and they began to multiply and replenish the earth. Adam and Eve together, the two of them, were fully capable of following, of fulfilling the commandment to multiply and replenish. Um, even the animals God commanded to multiply and replenish. Um, that’s in verse 22 of Genesis 1. Then in Genesis 7 it’s Noah, it’s Noah’s turn again, a new, a new um covenant people being commanded to multiply and fill the earth. And and and so this is just showing that Noah, just like Adam had one wife, Eve, Noah had one wife, his sons each had one wife, and Noah went in and his sons and his wife and his son’s wifes with him into the ark because of the waters of the flood. And then Genesis 9:1, and God blessed Noah and his sons and said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. Verse 7, and you be ye fruitful and multiply. Bring forth abundantly in the earth and multiply therein. So in those cases, God is commanding the people to multiply, but they do it in monogamy. Polygamy is not in any way necessary

[00:17:59] for reproduction. So raise up seed unto me means means nurture up a covenant people who will live according to my laws and that I can fulfill my covenant and um. And it also means, I mean, and if we are interpreting it as multiply, every time God has commanded a people to multiply, it has been in monogamy. Now I wanted to also talk about multiply in the Book of Mormon because that’s fascinating. So I think we can all agree wherever we are in this discussion. That the people in the Book of Mormon were commanded not to practice plural marriage. Jacob 2:30 at least makes that much clear whether some people want to argue that, well, those people were commanded not to, but God reserved the right to command other people too, and he commanded the early um Mormons too. So, so even if you want to believe that we can agree that the people. In the Book of Mormon were commanded not to practice polygamy, right? Tell me if I’m right on that. Go ahead and comment and let me know what you think. But if you search the Book of Mormon for the word multiply, it is used quite a few times. Let’s see, I, I come up with 16 times, and let’s just look at a few of them. 25 5 13. And it came to pass that we began to prosper exceedingly and to multiply in the land. Um, Jerem 18 and we multiplied exceedingly and spread upon the face of the land. Mosiah 22, for they had multiplied exceedingly and waxed gray in the land. Um, Mosiah 99, and we did began to multiply and prosper in the land. Mosiah 23:20 and it came to pass that they did multiply and prosper exceedingly in the land. It goes on with many examples, and I know that often um we explain polygamy to say, oh well, it’s because when there is war and the men that that there are a lot of more women than men because the men have been killed in war is usually the most common interpretation I’ve heard and so um. I think we can also agree that there’s a lot of war in the Book of Mormon, and a lot of these cases of the use of the word multiply are actually in the wake of war, and we know that they were commanded not to practice polygamy. So that we’ll we’ll continue, we’ll have more discussions about the reasons for polygamy later on the reasons that we’ve used to explain why polygamy was necessary, one of them being that there were more women than men. I the more I thought about that, the more problematic I find it. We’ll discuss that. Later, but I just wanted to point out that many of these verses, um, let’s see, AA 6248, many of these of these instances of the people multiplying in the land were in recovering from the ravages of war. So the people and and they began to multiply and wax exceedingly strong again in the land, and it came to pass that they did multiply and spread and did go forth into the land southward, that’s helim and 38 and And they did multiply and wax exceedingly strong in the land and they um there’s there are just many examples. Let’s see, um, I really like 4th Nephi because that’s when they are establishing Zion. And so um it says it a couple of times, but it said, and they did exceeding and they did multiply exceedingly fast and became an exceedingly fair and delightsome people. So they multiplied exceedingly fast in monogamy. So, um, let’s see where, where was another one

[00:21:31] anyway, they began to multiply and spread and even did cover the face of the whole land that’s helium 1120, it’s it’s an ether so. So the idea that raise up seed means multiply, I hope it’s clear that that wouldn’t make sense because people were always fully capable of multiplying in monogamy, and that’s what God always commanded. And um and so in the context that we’ve looked at, if you, um, and I know I’m going over this pretty fast and it might seem kind of confusing, so I just invite each of you to take some time to study this on your own. And really consider how these words are being used throughout the rest of the chapter, because it seems to me like pretty extreme motivated reasoning to take this one verse out of context and to claim it says. Pretty much the opposite of what I strongly believe it actually says as I look at it. So the last thing I want to do as we’re talking about this one verse, is to look at it in context of the verses that come before and after it. This is the thing that really um Really got me because one of the things we’ll go over in some later episodes is sort of the experiences that people have had in polygamy and that some people still currently are having in polygamy, but that that um people in the past had a polygamy. There are, as I dug in and asked more questions after coming to this new paradigm, I learned more things about my own family history that um. Really broke my heart and I learned more things about women in early church history that really broke my heart, and I think it’s important to look at the experiences of the women because that’s what God cares about. If you read, uh, let’s start at, um, I guess let’s start at verse 29. We’ll read 29 and and go on from there. So 30 is the loophole, right? Wherefore this people shall keep my commandment, saith the Lord of hosts, or cursed be the land for their sake. For if I will, sayeth the Lord of hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people. Otherwise they shall hearken unto these things. Just I’ll take a little break to spell that out really quickly. For if I will sayeth the Lord of hosts, raise up seed unto me, which is what I want to do with you, children of Lehi. I have brought you forth so I could raise up seed unto me. I will command my people, which is what I’m doing. The fact that I am commanding you here is further evidence of how I want to raise up seed through you and with you. Otherwise they shall hearken unto these things. Otherwise, if I weren’t commanding you and I didn’t want to raise up seed, then you would do the, the, um, abominations of David and Solomon. You would pursue those, and I wouldn’t care as much cause I’ve invested so much in you because I want to raise up seed, and so I’m commanding you, and I want you to listen to the things I’m telling you, right? And not do these things that those people did of old. So, um, so anyway, and continuing on now, God tells his reason of why it’s so important to him that they hearken unto His commandments instead of doing these things that David and Solomon did. For behold, I, the Lord God, have seen the sorrow and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem. Yeah, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands, and I will not suffer,

[00:25:00] sayeth the Lord of hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem shall come up unto me against the men of my people, sayeth the Lord of hosts, for they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people. Um, let’s see, because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction, for they shall not commit whoredoms like unto them of old, sayeth the Lord of hosts. Um, it goes on, but I just wanted to read this last little bit. Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives and lost the confidence of your children because of your bad examples before them, and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God which cometh down against you, many hearts died pierced with deep wounds. Now the reason I feel like this is so important. It is because it is God giving His reason for forbidding polygamy, and I, I do want to clarify, I know that many polygamous men are good men trying their very best to live what they believe is the law of God. And yet still it breaks the hearts of their wives. This is one of the areas I was the most naive about and something we’re also going to talk about more. About how polygamy hurts women, how it breaks their hearts, how they suffer in it, even with a righteous husband, but let alone in um some of the some of the stories from our past because even good men. Marriage is hard, right? Marriage is hard, and the one advantage we have is that we’re equally yoked. My husband is just as invested in creating a happy marriage as I am, so we work together. It’s not that I, it, it, there, there’s not the power imbalance that creates such heartache and such. Such despair, like, really the mourning of women and polygamy is a true thing. And so if God is giving that as his reason for forbidding it, then it doesn’t make sense. Like if we, if we are taking this verse out of context and saying it’s a loophole, then God would be saying. Well, if I want a lot of babies to be born, then I don’t care about the suffering of my women, because he isn’t in any way clarifying. If I command polygamy, I will bless the women to not suffer. He’s not saying that at all, and that’s not what happened. That’s not what has happened in the history of the church. There are heartbreaking stories of things that women experience. Now I know that God is all. Always there. God can always bless and uplift us and heal our broken hearts. So I understand that to be the case. I am just looking at the concept of God commanding polygamy as an eternal law or as something that he wants us to live in this life. So, um, I hope that that makes sense that um the. That that you’ll at least take some time to study Jacob chapter 2 and specifically verse 30, but the entire chapter so you can get it in context. And I would love to know your thoughts. I would love to know where you agree, where you disagree, and um You know, let, let’s, let’s keep the discussion going. Join us next time for episode 3, where we are going to study God’s establishment of marriage from the beginning. So thank you so much for being here. My name is Michelle Stone,

[00:28:26] and this is 132 Problems.