113: Exonerating Emma – Repenting of Our False Traditions - 132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

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[00:00:00] Welcome to 132 problems revisiting Mormon Polygamy, where today we are going to discuss some of the historical and ongoing concerns for women in the church. I again, as always want to thank everybody who has helped to make this podcast possible and has helped it to grow so unbelievably quickly, thank you to all of those who subscribe and continue to subscribe and share this podcast. And thank you especially to all of those who donate to help make this podcast possible. I really appreciate it and we could not be doing this without you. So thank you so much for joining me as we take this deep dive into the murky waters of the LDS church’s relationship with women. I was out of town for about 10 days, the end of last month and apparently while I was gone, things got pretty exciting on the topic of women in the church. So for anybody else who missed it, sister Annette Dennis, the first counselor in the Relief Society general presidency said this in the worldwide Relief Society devotional. There is no other religious organization in the world that I know of that has so broadly given power and authority to women. There are religions that ordain some women to positions such as priests and pastors, but very few relative to the number of women in their congregations receive that authority that their church gives them. By contrast, all women, 18 years and older in the church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints who choose a covenant relationship with God in the house of the Lord are endowed with priesthood power directly from God. And as we serve in whatever calling or assignment, including ministering assignments, we are given priesthood authority to carry out those responsibilities. My dear sisters, you belong to a church which offers all its women priesthood power and authority from God. Nevertheless, just as he tried to do with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden with the Tree of Life, the adversary wants to focus our attention on what we haven’t been given and blind us to all that we have been given. So that was the initial quote. And I actually don’t know how many women tuned in to that original broadcast. I know that I, I’m embarrassed to say I was out of town and I didn’t even know about it. Right. And so so it might not have been such a big audience to hear it. And also, um sometimes when you’re listening to an entire meeting, one part of it might stand out to you a little bit, but you might not catch some things that you otherwise would have. But in another just shockingly ill advised, move somebody at the church, I assume either in the pr department or the social media department, if they have one decided to post this quote from this talk on the church’s Instagram page where instead of just the smaller group of very faithful women hearing it, who would have, who would have tuned into the devotional instead of just that audience hearing it, a much, much broader audience heard it or read it and wow, it did not go over very well. The response was huge and it was fast and furious. Thousands and thousands of women expressed their hurt, frustration and anger about feeling. So gas lit by the quote, many, many women, thousands voiced their numerous heartfelt concerns about all of the examples of inequality they have seen in the church and the many painful experiences so many women have had in the church. So a few days after, well, well, first let me say um that the the fire, the media firestorm did not disappoint. Um I believe the story even reached the New York Times which you really know it’s a big deal when that happens. And um I first before I go on to anything else want to just express my heartfelt empathy and charity and prayers for sister Dennis. The first thing when I heard about this story, my heart just broke for her. I am certain that the last thing that she wanted was this kind of public outcry against something that she said. I think it’s very sad and I hope that we can all, despite what hurt we might be feeling with this quote that we can see her as a person and pray for her. Because I think she probably really has needed our prayers. I really hope that she has felt comforted and surrounded by the love of God because I’m imagining with all of the service and all of the goodness that she tries to do this was certainly not what she expected or what she wanted. And I really think it’s too bad that this is, this is what happened. And um I honestly don’t really think it’s her fault. I think in so many ways, what she was trying to do was admirable. I think she was trying to help women feel empowered in an institution that all too often makes us feel remarkably disempowered. And so, um, so anyway, let’s, let’s just recognize the absolutely impossible situation that she is in because she also is a product of this church and it has to, you know, be part of it. I don’t even know how it was clear that she was reading a teleprompter. So I don’t know how much she gets to write her own talk, watching the devotion. I just felt kind of sorry for a lot of those women, how they kind of awkwardly had to stand and sort of perform. I don’t know, I just, it, it made me just really want to pray for her, especially, I know from my own little experience how difficult it can be to

[00:06:21] have sort of, you know, a public outcry. I’ve never experienced anything like that where there, where the comments were so much more negative than positive. But I know that the small amount I’ve had, I have experienced can be really, really difficult when you’re trying so hard to do good. And the result is that bad. So anyway, I just wanna let sister Dennis know that our hearts are with her and you know, our experience is with her as well. This is this is really hard stuff. So I do want to point out that um uh two days I think after the Instagram post first went up, the church responded with a far lot less than helpful response. It was just kind of this weird comment. They said the social media team acknowledges the comments, the social media team like this is not about the social media team. These comments go to something much, much more ubiquitous and much deeper than just one Instagram post. I do want to say I was out of town, so I didn’t comment at all. I was completely uninvolved and I’m kind of glad I’m thankful for that and thankful that I was able to just come back and kind of watch it, see what happened rather than be a participant in it. But um the comment went on went on to say we will, oh, that the comments will be shared with church leaders who follow these issues. Ok. That was really weird too. Like there are only certain church leaders who follow what issues, the experience of women in the church. Isn’t that something that affects all of us? We always hear the church leaders say they’re all husbands, they’re all fathers, right? And fathers in law, they all have daughters and granddaughters. Shouldn’t this be something that concerns everybody in the church and especially all of the leaders? So that was a little bit strange. And then it also went on to inform us that the church is being kind in their comments and sort of told the people to be kind as well. Anyway, it was a little bit, a little bit strange. But then, um six days after that, I believe, um about a week after that sister Dennis offered uh quite a bit better response and um I’ll just, it started out a little bit um difficult as well, but I do think she got some really good help with this. And um this is the best part. I think she said as a member of the General Relief Society presidency, I can assure you that we and our church leaders are listening and learning from the things you have shared with us that is just like about the only thing you could say and just the perfect thing to say. It’s just hard because I hope that she, you know, like there’s the question of are other church leaders listening. And again, it’s not sister dennis’ fault. This goes a lot higher and a lot deeper, right? And she’s not the only one that needs to be listening and responding. We love and pray for you and all our sisters everywhere. Please know we hear you, we need you and we care for you. So I appreciate that. And um I just have to point out that this entire thing was just another example of the, the the issues that we are dealing with how they are going to continue to keep out. This was just another the latest explosion of feeling that should reveal to all of us. Hopefully, including our leaders, the huge problems. We are still trying to keep hidden under the rug. The church’s perspective on women, we really do have this huge giant stinky rotting mess to deal with. And the longer we try to keep pushing it under the rug, try to try to ignore it and keep it hidden and buried. The the bigger it is going to get, the more problems it is going to create and the bigger the issues are going to become. I think this was just the latest iteration of that truth. So I’m gonna say something that I want people to consider because I believe it is very true. I think that it is essential for all of us to understand that today’s problems are nothing but outgrowths of our painful history that sadly has never been acknowledged or dealt with, let alone corrected or repaired. And in order to solve the problems we face today, we need to first see and heal the wounds from our past. The only way we can hope to go forward and better ways is to first recognize and repent of our historical treatment of women and disavow and condemn the abominable system and teachings that put women in the church in this position. In the first place, the system and teachings that silenced women abused women and disempowered women, more than just about anything. We could possibly imagine the system that never could abide a strong woman who wouldn’t just submit to unrighteous Dominion, a woman like Emma Smith. So I am arguing that the first step to actually redeeming the proper place of the w of the proper place of woman in the church in any meaningful way is to first redeem our founding matriarch, the mother of the restoration, the elect lady chosen by God and by Joseph Smith to partner with him in bringing forth the book of Mormon and the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. And the first but far from the last woman to be demolished by the anti woman faction that took over the church. She and her husband had sacrificed everything to establish this episode is going to bring forward some evidence

[00:12:07] that I believe has not been looked at before. So in that way, it’s brand new, it’s evidence that I believe will expose and not only disprove but destroy some of the worst lies. The church starting with Brigham Young has told and continues to tell about Emma Smith specifically. What we’re going to look at today is the horrible accusation that she was to blame for Joseph’s death or even that she was in any way or partially to blame for Joseph’s death or as some of the accusations that she was solely to blame for Joseph’s death, we’ll get into all of that. Please stay tuned for this episode. I believe it is a very important one. So I have to explain, I was, was on the other side of the world when this fire storm storm broke out. I’ve probably flown only about half a dozen times since getting married 30 years ago and proceeding to have 13 Children. It didn’t leave a lot of room for travel. But last month I was able to go on what turned out to be kind of a dream vacation, an incredible business trip with my husband. And it was my first time in Asia of all places. I got to go to Asia. And um, but even being in Taipei and Indonesia, I could not escape the topic of polygamy aside from being the workaholic that I am on this topic. Yes, I did take my laptop and I did work a lot on my vacation. But I have to say that um sitting outside by the beach, watching the sunrise on the ocean is the way to work. So, no complaints whatsoever. And I was able to get quite a bit done. But um I do have to show you some of the things that I wasn’t expecting to encounter on this vacation. This right here is one of China’s and definitely one of Taiwan’s most famous artifacts. It’s housed in the National Palace Museum in Taipei. It’s called the Jadeite cabbage. It’s so famous because the because of the incredible artistry and how sculptor ingeniously incorporated the natural faults in the stone into the design making. What would have been a somewhat b grade piece of Jadeite into China’s most famous um piece of artwork or at least one of their most famous pieces of artwork. It was the main thing that our tour tour guide wanted us to see when she took us to the National Palace Museum. And she explained that it was a gift to the king from one of his ministers who wanted the honor of having his daughter become one of the king’s concubines. It was like, really, really, this is what’s happening on my vacation. Apparently, the white of the cabbage represents virginity and the leaves and the locust and Katie did Katie did on top of the cabbage represent fertility. I um I have to say I did laugh aloud when a friend pointed out that if she was a virgin, they wouldn’t actually know yet if she was fertile. Right. So, but yes, this is polygamy Kings having unfettered access to countless young girls fathers using their daughters as currency for their own aggrandizement and women being viewed only in terms of their virginity and fertility. And I would say submission as well. Um I’m sure it didn’t affect everybody else on the tour the way it did me. But yes, I noticed I was very aware of the narrative I was hearing here. And so after we toured the National, after we went to the museum, we toured the um I think it’s called the Family Mansion and Gardens, which are incredible. I cannot begin to do them justice with just a few pictures. But while we were there, I’ll just show you a couple of pictures that um that this was, this was an amazing place to go. If you ever happen to be in Tai Bai Bei, I recommend going to these two places. But um while we were there, our guide happily showed us the holes in the walls next to one of the um dining rooms, explaining with humor that women and girls who by the way would have had their feet bound at this time, were not permitted to look a man in the face. They had to keep their eyes on the ground. She was telling us with, um with kind of a glint and riot. This kind of funny little fact and I was a little bit fighting tears, you know. So when a man came to ask the father for his daughter, um the daughter would have to serve tea to her father and her would be suitor. Um she would have to serve them tea or dinner with on her with her tiny little delicate steps on her painfully bound feet. The tour guide didn’t um talk about foot binding, but I looked it up and yet in this time period, it was definitely happening, especially for the upper classes. So she would have to um kind of limp in and serve dinner without ever seeing the man that she might be given to as her husband. And um because she had to look at the floor while she was serving him, so they would make holes in the walls so they could at least glimpse, get at least peek through and get some glimpse of the man their father might sell them to. Because remember, bride price was, was a big part of this culture as well. And so that all happened on my vacation, which I found to be quite amazing. And um while we were there, we also, as I said, were in Indonesia, which part of Indonesia still practice his Hinduism, which in so many ways is such a beautiful religion just like Mormonism. It has so much that’s just beautiful about it. But I also happened to be told about some of the much darker um aspects of Hinduism. Um So I’ll share this one in the caste system. And with reincarnation,

[00:18:04] it was believed that if someone died of natural causes, they would be born one step higher on the caste system, right? Which for females meant being born as male in the same cast. So um a male reincarnation is higher than a female reincarnation, of course, right? And so um as a result, um parents in especially in the lower castes would not uncommonly leave infant girls to die in ditches, demonstrating both the lack of value placed on girls and the desirability of being reborn as male. And um just, just so we’re aware these um cultural practices have not completely died out. There’s still the huge problem of sex selective abortion going on that. These are, these things are certainly not in our distant past and some of them are not even in our past. So I guess I wanted to bring that up both to highlight the problems of women in this world, the problems of polygamy and of the mindset that leads to and creates and supports polygamy and also to kind of give us a little bit of break of a break in the church. We are, we’re not killing it on the on the woman front, but we are also not the very worst in the world. So it’s good to at least be aware of that. And I do also want to point out though that one of the common justifications for polygamy that the early church leaders frequently made and that is still made by polygamy promoters. Today. I hear it regularly is that many cultures throughout the world have practiced polygamy. They say that most cultures practice polygamy. It was only those bad, bad Romans that went to monogamy. And I OK, let’s look at the world. I I I’ve talked before about Genghis Khan and how they stole the women of the tribes. And we can look at the Israelites and how they did their massive genocides except kept alive, all of the little girls, all the little virgin girls who they would rape and decide whether or not they wanted to keep them as a wife. Right? Then we can look to these stories and China and um Indonesia and India. And anyway, do we really want to make the argument that because a lot of uh because a lot of the rest of the world has done polygamy, therefore, it must be good. Yes, like like please. A lot of the rest of the world has also been involved in a lot of wars. There’s been a lot of murder, there’s been a lot of rape, there’s been a lot of slavery, there’s been a lot of um all there, there’s just all kinds of horrible things. The natural man is an enemy to God, right? And has been and will be until he put it off the natural man and entices to the Holy Spirit that teaches us to do things in a better way. Let’s please stop making that argument that well, they did it, they did it, they did it. Therefore, it must be of God. It’s such a silly argument. So, um the other thing I really want to point out with this is the necessary vilification of women. The the demeaning of women is just a necessary part of this system of polygamy. And part of that is the vilification of women who don’t submit to their would be polygamist overlords. And that brings us to Brigham Young’s claims about Emma truly despicable claims that are still being officially spread by the church today, not all of them, but some of them are still being spread today. And I, that I argue absolutely need to be completely expunged if we hope to improve the current situation in the church in any meaningful way. So, and I want to say I’ll get into this a little bit more later, but I’m not looking for manmade solutions. Um Many people have been upset that women have been asked or told that they were no longer to sit on the stand in words where that was happening. And I like, I totally understand that, but frankly, that that’s foreign to me, that’s not my chosen solution because I don’t really want anyone to sit on the stand. I honestly don’t understand how, um, we, we have been able to just ignore or just not hear the savior’s admonition about loving the upper rooms at feasts and loving the chief seats in the synagogues. And I’ll just add this really quickly. Um, adding women to the stand to the chief seats, doesn’t really solve the problems that we have in the church. Just adding women to the problems we have in the church doesn’t make the problems better, right? Although it does strike me as deeply ironic that women sit on the stand at a general conference but are not allowed to in sac meetings. I’m not quite sure of the um thought process there, but as I said, this isn’t solution. I personally want the Zion model that I believe we are seeking is based in partnership and connection and um equality and love, not hierarchy, not putting some people above others, not putting some people in special seats where they can be visually, see where the hierarchy can be visually displayed every time that we are worshiping,

[00:23:09] right? I don’t think that that’s the model that we’re going for. And I don’t think based on what I read in the scripture that that’s the model the savior wants us to be going for either. So I, so while we’re going to get into this, but I do want to point out, I don’t think we need human made solutions. We need solutions from God and we just can’t receive those until we repent and acknowledge and seek to repair the actual problem which stems back 180 years. So um I also because I just have to, you know, like be um be fair to everyone and call out possible hypocrisy. The exos are not off the hook here. Either one of the big criticisms I hear against the church by ex Mormons is that they only allow and magnify women’s voices who tow the party line who speak in the way that the um people in authority want spoken, right? And I just feel like I want to point out that that is in many ways exactly what the Ex Mormons are doing with me and others like Whitney Horning, who wrote an incredible book called Joseph Smith revealed that was ignored on many fronts. And it’s really um OK, I’m, I, I don’t want this to be about me. So please ignore. I’m just using it as a reference because it matters. The growth of this podcast has been shocking. I cannot explain it. I am just overwhelmed and amazed and deeply gratified. Yes, because my hard work is being appreciated and recognized and that, that does make me feel good. But more because it shows that these ideas are resonating with people that people are being drawn to hearing about these things, right? And so I want to say at this point, this podcast that I’m doing is one of the biggest podcasts in the LDS um in the nuanced LDS space for sure. Right. And it’s, it may very well be the fastest growing podcast. It’s crazy what’s happening right now. And it is certainly one of the biggest podcasts done by a woman. Right. But um just like the example given by Brian Hales in the church, so many people just want to silence me, ignore me, refuse to platform me or with little or no understanding of who I really am. What I really believe and say and what I’m about just mock and belittle me. So this is what’s happening. And um no, Steven Pinker and the never knows you are not getting a pass here. I have to say that after exploiting my image for this awful thing, advertising and despite all his public claims to the contrary, Steve, you still have yet to contact me or invite me on. And just this week, Steve once again for the third time in a row, completely backs stabbed and ghosted Whitney Horning. After again, asking her to come on, she even sent him a copy of her latest book. Ha is really, really frustrating. So I don’t want to just be negative. So I want to give a huge shout out to the channels, both um active LDS, nuanced LDS or Post Mormon who have invited me to come on their podcast. And I’m sorry if I have forgotten anybody I just grabbed some of the pictures from some of the um interviews that I have been invited to come and do and I have th I enjoyed it. I want to thank you so much and I want to do another shout out to say to some of these other channels, these things need to be discussed just like the LDS church is learning. You, you can’t just, you can’t just deprive things of oxygen and hope they go away. This is not something that’s just going to disappear. So, ok, now that we’ve got that out there so that we can just keep things even and acknowledge what everybody is doing. Let’s focus back on the problems with women’s voices and women’s power in the church and the fact that it began clear back with the first powerful female voice in the church and that is Emma Smith, let me get to my picture so I can add her to the screen because I want her to be front and central focus in this episode. So I do want to say some may disagree with me, but that is why this is so important to get in and study out from everything I have researched. The problems that we are going to talk about did not begin until after Joseph Smith’s death. Joseph empowered women. He relied on women and he magnified their voices and in his revelation to Emma which um is recorded in doctrine and covenants section one and section 132, section 25 which by the way, tell her that she is a faith that if she is faithful, her life would be preserved where 132 repeatedly threatens her with destruction. Keep in mind she lived to be 74 at a time when the average life expectancy was less than 40. Um He sustains her as his equal partner and ordains her to expound scripture and exhort the church as she would be directed by the spirit. And then this and that is a calling that she fulfilled and magnified especially regarding section 101 in the doctrine and covenants, which absolutely was their canonized scripture. When, when the women had the idea to form a charitable organization, he fully supported them and sought revelation and told them they were ordained and approved by God. Um He encouraged and empowered them to choose their own leader.

[00:28:51] Then he encouraged them to hearken to and sustain the leader they had chosen. Then he stepped back, allowing them to name and run their own society, hold their own meetings and follow their own inspiration. He fully supported the relief society even donating a plot of land to their cause. This is the deed written to Emma in 1842 donating land to the Relief Society and employing one of his own secretaries to write the voice of innocence on their behalf. But other than his support and encouragement, he fully stepped back and allowed them to run and govern the organization themselves without direct male supervision or authority over them. In addition to his hands off, full support of women and his full partnership with his wife, he did not even strictly enforce gender roles like his um successor did. For just one example, he allowed men and women to be baptized for their dead ancestors of either gender. This is how Joseph interacted with women in the church. But things changed dramatically after his death. In previous episodes, I have discussed some uh some of Brigham Young’s and William Clayton’s plotting against Emma refusing to give her access to the financial documents and records and taking the church assets for themselves while leaving her with all the debts. I have to thank Kaitlyn Banks for these fantastic memes that I thought summed it up very well. I appreciate these Caitlin. They, they made me smile and they made me want to cry. So the main things I want to focus on in this episode are the accusations Brigham made against Emma. So as I said, there are many other things we could talk about, but that’s what we’re going to talk about here. He claimed that she was not only responsible for Joseph’s death, but that she actually wanted Joseph dead and intentionally tried to kill him multiple times. And I want to talk about how the church handles those accusations and the narrative set under Brigham Young today I will ignore the majority of Brigham’s statements about women in general. There are many but the way he talks about Emma should paint a pretty clear picture that we can extrapolate from. The reason this is so relevant to the culture issues of women’s place in the church today is that church as that the church has carried on for far too many decades under the shadow of Brigham Young and his legacy doctrine, principles and practices until we fully address these horrible parts of our past and fully acknowledge disavow and condemn Brigham Young’s treatment of women demonstrated here by Brigham’s treatment of Emma. Our dispensation, head’s chosen wife and partner and a founding mother of our religion. We cannot hope to create meaningful improvement. Like on so many issues, we desperately need further light and knowledge. But in order to receive that, we need to repent and seek to repair the damage that has been done. So, the standard narrative of the church regarding the martyrdom that we have been taught in church and seminary lessons is that Emma asked Joseph to come back to NAVOO and turn himself in. Um I’ll read this, this is the part that’s the most applicable today, but we’re gonna go through a lot in this episode. But right now I’ll read um from lesson 26 of the Church History Teachers Manual. It says a few men came from NAVOO to see Joseph, including church member Reynolds Cahoon who carried a letter from Emma encouraging Joseph to come home. Some of the men pled with the prophet to turn himself in informing Joseph that the governor intended to occupy navoo with troops until he and his brother Hyrum gave themselves up. It cites Saints volume one as its source for that claim. We’re going to go into that as well. So some of them even accused Joseph of cowardice. And um Joseph replied, if my life is of no value to my friends, it is of none to myself. And Joseph then decided to turn himself in knowing that he was going like a lamb to the slaughter. So that’s the story that we tell. This claim implies that Emma was at least in part to blame for Joseph’s death and that at least in his mind, she didn’t value his life. This is far from the only claim made against Emma, but it is the central narrative of the days leading up to the martyrdom that we have continued to promote. There are some pretty awful things said both about Joseph and Emma. But I don’t know that I can think of a more awful way to slander Emma than to blame her for the biggest tragedy that she ever experienced in her life. The death of her husband. This is an extremely serious and damning accusation. We should think very hard about it before just assuming it is true. It is way past time, we investigate all the accusations made against Emma, especially regarding Joseph’s death, mainly this one that she contributed to it and if necessary, exonerate her with deep remorse for the way she has been accused and defamed. I think you like me will be shocked by what we find when we actually look at the evidence for these accusations. So Brigham Young did not waste time starting his allegations and retribution against Emma and women in general just months after resting the power um and eliminating most of the other contenders from Nauvoo. But with the succession crisis still in pretty high gear. On March 9th, 1845 he delivered sermons, sharing the same sentiments about women to both the high priests

[00:34:41] and the seventies. So this is from the seventies record. We don’t actually have access to the seventies records. They’re closed to research. But thankfully, the church historians press has given us um a few excerpts. So this is the seventies record minutes on March 9th, 1845 President Brigham Young arose and said he would make remarks relative to, to things in which many of our sisters have been engaged. They have no right to meddle in the affairs of the Kingdom of God. They never can hold the keys of the priesthood apart from their husband, when I want sisters or the wives of the members of this church to get up relief society, I will summon them to my aid. But until that time, let them stay at home and if you see females huddling together, veto the concern. And if they say Joseph started it, tell them it is a damned life for. I know he never encouraged it, but I know where the, I know where the chit was laid. That means where it was begun. But I am determined to stay these proceedings for by it. Our best men have been taken, taken from us. One ounce of preventive is better than Â£1 of cure. So um the shit was laid means, he knows where it began. And I think that that’s a direct reference to Emma Smith saying that she was actually the start of it. And again that um by it, their best men have been taken from them, right? It’s the relief society’s fault. In other words, it’s Emma’s fault. And this in this sermon to the seventies, he also quote, declared that he had a right to speak for. I am a man having authority and not as the scribe. I just want to point out that that is a direct reference to Matthew 728 which says, and it came to pass when Jesus had ended these things, the people were astonished at his doctrine for he taught them as one having authority and not as the scribes. So that’s the comparison Brigham Young is making about himself there. So now we’ll go on to the um high priest Corm record and this one we do have access to. It’s the same day. And he says, I say, I will curse every man that lets his wife or daughters meet again until I tell them what a relief societies for to relieve us of our best men. They relieved us of Joseph and Hyrum. So again, this, these are the first, um I would say direct accusations against Emma. This is what they will lead to. I don’t want the advice or counsel of any woman they would lead us down to hell. There is no woman on the face of the earth who can save herself. But if she ever comes into the celestial kingdom, she must be led in by some man God knew what Eve was. Did you catch that? God knew what Eve was. He was acquainted with women, thousands and millions of years before? Wow. Right. That’s quite a sentiment. So the church historian press, um the editors tried to soften this somewhat by saying most of Brigham Young’s recorded addresses date to the Utah period. They show that his rhetoric was colorful, expressive and sometimes coarse, a reflection of his frontier upbringing. I just want to point out Joseph Smith was also brought up on frontier as was Abraham Lincoln as were many, many great people during that time who didn’t speak this way about women, right? Or about uh many other people about different races about like we can’t just keep gaslighting and explaining away Brigham’s um awful teachings and ideas and statements, making excuses for him that just don’t hold up. Um It goes on to say after arriving in Utah Young edited many of his talks before they were published in printing my remarks. He said, I often omit the sharp words though they are perfectly understood and applicable here for, I do not wish to spoil the good, the good I desire to do. So what we have in the journal of discourses and elsewhere are and in the Deseret book are actually his edited versions. That’s good to know. Sometimes you’re reading it, you can catch one of his edits. They come out pretty clearly. Um Let’s see. Let, let my remarks go to the world in the way that the, that the prejudices of the people can bear. And then it says he did not have the benefit of editing the clerk’s notes of his remarks delivered on March 9th, 1845. I just want to point out Joseph Smith didn’t have the benefit of editing any of his remarks, right? We have the originals of what he said and he never said anything at all like this. These sermons alone reveal the mind of a man who would originate polygamy in the church and would come up with the ideas of section 132. We should pay attention to this, right? It’s a different kind of mind. It’s a different perspective on woman and we hear it from Brigham Young from the very beginning and we never heard anything like it from Joseph Smith. This is the perspective on women that comes through in this doctrine and practice. And that is throughout this document, this, in my opinion, false revelation during NAVOO endowment ceremonies, Brigham taught at the veil that Adam was quote, permitted to receive the tokens of the priesthood only after having learned not to listen to the woman. And that woman will never get back to God unless she follows the man back. I’ll include the link to that with um with that March 9th, 1845 pronouncement,

[00:40:10] the church wide Relief Society was officially shut down for over 20 years until it was again renewed with Brigham Young’s permission and for his purposes in 1860 I believe there were in the 18 fifties. Some wards had relief societies. I don’t know if that was approved of or not how that worked. But the official General Relief Society did not start up again until 1868. Um Let’s see, these March 9th, 1845 addresses are the first intimations I have seen of Brigham accusing Emma of being responsible for Joseph’s death, but they would certainly not be the last. So I’ll go over some of his other accusations here. But as a preface, I’ve talked about this before, but I think it is worthwhile to go over again. I we really need to pay attention to the principle of narcissistic projection. So let me share a few clips with you that explain it pretty well. Projection is one of those interesting psychological tells when somebody accuses you or says things about you really feel patently untrue or uncomfortable instead of defending yourself. Take a moment, think about it and say, I know this is absolutely untrue about me. But it’s interesting that that person is making that accusation. Projection is a tell because when somebody accuses you of something that’s very untrue. Odds are, it’s because they’re experiencing it or they’re doing it. Ok. There’s one example, let me go to another um mental health professional who explains the same concept.

[41:53] Health Professional: Essentially, all narcissists tell on themselves. Projection is the process through which they reveal who they are and what they’re doing through projection. They call you what they are. They accuse you of doing what they’re doing or planning on doing.

OK. So there are just a couple of snippets that can help us understand this principle that I think is important to keep in mind as we go forward to read some of these accusations. So just remember, narcissistic projection means that very often a narcissist accusations are actually their confessions. That’s one thing that we need to be aware of. So, OK, here we go. Let’s just start going through these, we’re going to go into several of the accusations Emma Brigham Young made against Emma Smith. All of these were made over the pulpit, teaching to congregation in various settings often in general conferences. So um this is February 25th, 1855 at a Salt Salt Lake City Council meeting. Brigham said he meaning Joseph Smith the third will not always feel as he does. Now, Emma tried to poison her husband and was connived with the mob that did kill him. So, ok, we’ll continue on to the next one. This is September 30th 1855 Salt Lake City Council meeting again the same year just a few months later. Um And this, we keep in mind we’ll get read this a little bit later. There had already been multiple attempts to burn Emma’s house down in Nauvoo in an effort to destroy the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible. And yet here, Brigham is accusing Emma of destroying it. He says I would like to get the Bible that Joseph marks, but I think Emma has destroyed it. It’s interesting that he again accuses makes this accusation because it seems to build on his earlier August 29th, 1852 accusation where he said the original copy of this revelation was burnt up. William Clayton was the man who wrote from the mouth of the prophet. In the meantime, it was in Bishop Whitney’s possession. He wished the privilege to copy it which brother Joseph granted sister Emma burnt the original. The reason I mentioned this is because that the people who did know of the revelations suppose it was not. Now in existence. So he needed a way to basically gaslight the people and explain why there was this revelation that none of them knew about. And the solution he came up with was, well, none of you knew about it because it’s been in my desk. Right. And anyone who, there are people who did know about it, but they know that Emma burned it. This is the first time that that accusation was made. And so, um let’s go on to this report on December 24th, 1859. This I guess is his, um his Christmas Eve thoughts. Um He said in course of conversation, the president alluded to the character of Emma Smith. He said he liked her now, but he would never be dictated by her. He observed to a person who alluded to her dictating course and who he knew would tell her again that he had heard geese cockle or howl before he observed that Emma had tried to poison Joseph at the table and had sought to injure him other ways. The president remarked in every instance where women were mentioned in the scriptures to have performed any remarkable thing. It was where men ceased to magnify their priesthood. And the women were the smart and the women were the smartest of the two because the men in those instances were failing. That’s how he explained. The few examples we have of women in the scriptures. I don’t know that those come came one after another. I think I just put that last part in because

[00:45:38] I thought it went to the point that we’re making. So, ok. Now let’s move forward. This is November 4th, 1860. The sons of Joseph is who he’s talking about. Will never leave the church. No, never. They are the seed of Joseph and God will bring them to this kingdom. They have served Emma as long they have served, served Emma as long. She will go to hell as sure as her name is Emma Smith. And then, um he goes ahead and talks about Emma and then he’s talking to Emma saying you have abused the things taught by the prophet. You shall pay the debt. You have denied plurality of wives. God will bring them meaning Joseph’s sons to the mountains. If angels have to pluck, come up and carry them out, but young Joseph will never lead this kingdom. And um that’s Joseph Smith the third who you’ll hear talked about quite a bit. Now we’ll go on. This is October 7th 1863. He mentions um brother George a Smith, which is why I put him on the site as well. Brother George, a Smith saw young Joseph a few years ago and judging from what they and the other boys say, they do not believe their father as a prophet of God, but they think he was a consummate scoundrel in religious matters. It’s so funny. You can read any of the words, of any of the sons of Joseph and of Emma to see what they all say. I know what Emma believes and have known it all the day long. And yet there is not that woman on the earth that would, I would delight to honor more with the whole family if they would let me do it in Joseph’s day. She tried to throw me brother Heber, um, brother Willard Richards and the 12 apostles out of the church and tried to destroy the whole church. And I know it, Joseph himself testified before high heaven more than once that she had administered poison to him. There are men and women present today who can bear witness that more hell was never wrapped up in any human being than there is in her. She gave him too heavy a dose and he vomited it up and was saved by faith. So again, the accusations, the claims, right? We can see the pattern. These things are verifiably not true. Um, he goes on general conference, um, October 7th 1866. And these, this quote is Brigham’s most extensive comments about Emma and her sons. Um, that’s Joseph Smith’s family. I’ll read a few of the many paragraphs about her. I’m going to read quite extensively from this talk. Emma is naturally a very smart woman. She is subtle and ingenious and she has made all her Children believe that myself. Brother Kimball and the other members of the 12 laid the plot which terminated in the death of the prophet. I have to say that few things have made me as suspicious as reading Brigham’s many denials and accusations. I don’t know what to do with this. Um This charge is especially made to myself at the time that Joseph was killed. I was in the city of Boston, a number of 100 miles away from the scene of the martyrdom. She has made her Children inherit lies. And this quote goes on and I will continue with it. But I want to add that this is far from the only time that Brigham defensively admits that he is widely accused of Joseph’s murder. Um There are multiple cases but I want to share this one from July 26th, 1854. I didn’t make a slide of it, but I’m just going to read it. My faith is that they will not succeed in taking my life just yet. They have not as good a man to deal with as they had when they had Joseph Smith. I do not profess to be very good. I will try to take and I will try to take care of number one. And if that is wicked for me to try to preserve myself, I shall persist in it for I am intended to take care of myself. What is the news circulated throughout the United States that Captain Gunnison was killed by Brigham Young and that Babbitt was killed on the planes by Brigham Young and his Danite band. Um These were two of many cases that I looked into while I was working on the blood atonement episode. And I personally am convinced that he did have at least one of those men killed along with many, many others. Um Listen to the recent episode I did with the Klutz escaping Utah. Part two people have been waiting. Part two should be coming out next week. I just wanted to get this one in first. He on what more that Brigham Young has killed all the men who have died between the Missouri river and California. Such reports are in the bellows and editors and politicians are blowing them out. According to their version, I am guilty of the death of every man woman and child that has died between the Missouri River and the California gold mines. The painful irony of this sermon. And one of the reasons that it struck me so hard and that I wanted to include it is that Brigham delivered this only two months before the Mountain Meadows massacre where he was responsible for the deaths of at least 100 20 men, women and Children. Not to mention the men, women and Children killed in the Battle Creek massacre massacre a few years later and who even knows how many others. So it’s interesting to hear him mocking these claims while there is so much validity to them. He goes on to say they are coming here to chastise me. The the idea makes me laugh. And when do you think they will get a chance? Catching is always before hanging. It is their desire to say to the people. You are free. You are not under the bondage of Brigham Young. You need wear his yoke no longer. Now let us get drunk, fight, play at cards and race horses.

[00:51:15] And every one of you women turn to be whores and become associated with the civilization of Christendom. That is the freedom they are endeavoring to declare. Here it is in the very next paragraph of this sermon where he makes his famous admission. I am not going to interpret dreams for, I don’t profess to be such a prophet as were Joseph Smith and Daniel, but I am a Yankee guesser. And I guess that James Buchanan had ordered this expedition to appease the wrath of the angry hounds who are howling around him. So that’s, um, that’s just a sidetrack, but I thought it was really applicable to what we’re reading and what we’re talking about and the accusations we’re considering. So now let’s go back to the 1866 quote. Well, he first already said Emma is a naturally, very smart woman. She is subtle and ingenious. She has made her Children inherit lies. He goes on to say to my certain knowledge, Emma Smith is one of the damndest liars I know of on this. Yet there is no good thing I would refuse to do for her if she would only be a righteous woman. But she will continue in her wickedness. Not six months before the death of Joseph, he called his wife into a secret um into a secret councils. And there he told her the truth and called upon it, called upon her to deny it if she could. He told her that the judgments of God would come upon her forthwith if she did not repent. He told her of the time she undertook to poison him. And he told her that she was a child of hell and literally the most wicked woman on this earth that there was not one more wicked than she. He told her where she got the poison and how she put it in his cup of in a cup of coffee said he, you got that poison from so and so and I drank it, but you could not kill me when it entered his stomach and he went to the door and threw it off. He spoke to her in that council in a very severe manner and she never said one word in reply. I have witnesses of this scene all around who can testify that I am now telling the truth twice, she undertook to kill him, man. It’s intense. Another thing I think is important and worthwhile to recognize is when people invoke other people, right? People who are under their control and not who are they flying monkeys to assert that what they are saying is true. They feel the need to do that. It’s really concerning. Um He goes on to say if there are any latter day saints who wish to be destroyed, run after that family. And I will promise you in the name of God of, of the God of Israel, you will be damned any person who will follow this man or that man who was wrong and refuses to submit himself to the ordinances of the house of God and to serve him and keep his commandments will perish all that will walk in that path, will go to sure and swift destruction. Um Let’s see, he then talks about her son David, whom it was pregnant with when um Joseph was murdered. And um he talks about Joseph’s prophecy that the Lord would look to him. I am looking for the time when the Lord will speak to David, but let him pursue the course he is now pursuing and he will never preside over the church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints in time, nor in eternity. He has got to repent of his sins and turn away from his iniquity and to cease to do evil and learn to do well, embrace the gospel of life and salvation and be an obedient son of God, or he can never walk up to possess his right. It would be his right to preside over this church. If he would only walk in the path duty, I hope and pray that um that, that he and the whole family will repent and be a holy family. Now you Old Mormons stop here talking about young Joseph and about David going to preside over the church by and by. I wish he was prepared for, it would repent of his sins and come in at the door and be one with us and walk up to the 12 in the first presidency saying I am one with you and I am your servant reading this. I can’t help but think of Gideon High’s epistle to Laconia in 35 3. At least it’s what came to my mind, yield yourselves up unto us and unite with us and become acquainted with our secret works and become our brethren that ye may be like unto us, not our slaves, but our brethren and partners in all our substance and behold, I swear unto you. If you will do this with an oath, ye shall not be destroyed. So I’m going to continue to read from this talk. I apologize for the reading and I actually didn’t get slides made for this portion of it. It’s quite long, but I think it’s worth reading. So Brigham goes on and on in this sermon, he spends quite a bit of time terribly demeaning Sidney Rigdon. Then he goes on to say and where has the rest of the apostates gone? And where will they go? Every one of them bogus Joseph not accepted will go to destruction. And then this is the part that I um this will apply to the deeds episodes that we did. Alexander has um stated one here that the 12 robbed his mother of quote, the last second shirt to her back. Now, I want to tell this congregation what we did for his mother. And there are sitting around me members who can bear witness of the truth of the statement I am about to make after Joseph’s death. When the 12 arrived home, they selected N Whitney and George Miller as trustees in trust for

[00:56:17] the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. When the 12 came home after the death of Joseph Emma talked poor poor in our absence. Brother Kimball had collected in Wilmington $1300 in gold to pay some debts. He got this money from brother Em Saunders who now lives at Saint George. So remember that um they’re claiming that Kim that brother Kimball had gotten $1300 right? Um The question arose in council whether Emma should have the money or not. Brother William Clayton knows all about them this circumstance for he was Joseph’s clerk and he knew where the money was to be paid. Brother Kimball said I want to pay Emma this money and let her do as she pleases with it. So he paid it over to her. Is that true? Whether she paid the debt with it or not? I am not prepared to say, but I think we had to pay the debt. I think we had to pay the debt. This is according to my recollection to my recollection. Instead of Emma being robbed by the 12, a few days after the death of Joseph, she went over to Hiram’s house. Hiram had a large ring which she wore and Joseph had one and Don Don Carlos had one. These three rings were all alike. She asked Hiram’s wife to let her see that ring. Now, keep in mind, um, Mary has passed away by this time, Mary Fielding Smith. So he’s telling these stories again, all about people who have all died. Hiram’s widow brought her, brought her the ring, she took it and put it in her pocket. She went over to Don Carlos’s widow and wanted to see that ring. She took that also and put it in her pocket. And I think she also took the portrait of Hyrum instead of the 12 robbing her. She goes and takes things from her sisters. She was not satisfied yet. She wanted the Cleveland farm situated about four miles from Quincy. She thought if she had that farm she could live. Oh, my gosh. When you’ve read more of these things and know what was supposed to happen with these possessions. And, um, it’s just, it’s hard to read his words in every way. These, like these accusations of the rings. No, none of these wives ever made that, those accusations. It’s crazy. The stuff he comes up with and just says authoritatively as if he would know. N OK, wait, keep in mind. Right? Like the days after Joseph’s death, he wasn’t even back in town yet. Remember he stayed away for several weeks until the next month. Um NK Whitney had bought an old Bible. Joseph had run through it and made a good many marks in it for the new translation. This book belonged to Nua K Whitney Emma had it in her possession. She wished to exchange this book for the Cleveland Farm. I don’t know if he’s talking here about the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible. That’s what it sounds like to me saying that should have been ours already. And then the farm that was hers. The Cleveland farm was supposed to be hers. He’s saying I’ll give it to you if you give me the translation of the Bible. And now he’s saying that both of them belong to him. And I mean, it’s crazy. She got the deed for the farm, but she was not ready to give up the Bible. She complained about her poor little fatherless Children and she kept up this wine until she got the farm she wanted. And besides these farms, she owned city property, she owned city property worth $50,000. That’s Brigham’s claim. We gave her deeds for the farm at Quincy and for the farm on the prairie by the burning ground we gave her all she asked for. She has made her Children inherit lies. Alexander Smith was a little boy when these circumstances transpired and he believes what his mother has told him. We gave her those farms and this does not look like robbing her. I wanted to mention these things because there are a great many of the people who are ignorant of these circumstances. She got the last acre of land that was in the hands of the trusty and trust it all went to Emma for her benefit. Now you who have got but little sense, wait until you get a little more and stop talking and speculating about young Joseph or anybody else. God is the captain of this company, the general of this Army of Saints and the president of this church, its ruler and dictator. If I am the instrument which he chooses to use in the persecution of his great work, it is all right. I am just as willing as to, I am just as willing as any other man to be used. So, ok, that was a lot of fun. So um I wanna say I went quite a bit into the financial dealings into Brigham’s and Clayton’s financial dealings with Emma after Joseph’s death. In the first two episodes on deeds. These two for anyone who hasn’t watched these um, episodes or who wants a refresher on Brigham’s dealings with Emma. Um I talk about that starting at, I think 51 minutes in part one and at the hour 44 mark and part two, I will include um, a link below with the time stamp to where I talk about deeds in each of these episodes. Um And, and I’m sure I will do an episode going into detail onto the finance into the financial mess after Joseph’s death. But to provide a very brief summary, um oh, let me go to the next slide after Joseph’s death and having to fight tooth and nail to try to protect herself from the many men conspiring against her while she was also already in deep grief, grief, trying to care for her Children, pregnant and trying to care for Joseph’s grieving mother, Emma was left with property worth $8000 dropping to $4000. 2 years later, that was the total of the property holdings that she had in navoo. She was left with two cows, two horses,

[01:01:47] one of which Brigham had ruined her spinning wheel and household goods and an annual rent payment of 100 $24 with $70,000 of church debt left to Emma and her Children to struggle to pay their entire lives. She finally paid those debts off when she was in her seventies just four years before her death. You can, I, I um just summarized some of Mormon enigma. There are many other sources to get this from. So, um that II, I want to remind people I’ve referenced it before. But the letter that, um Emma wrote to her son Joseph Smith the third in 1869 she said Joseph, I cannot be thankful that those old debts trouble you. I know that you’ve done the very best. You know how they have been a source of anxiety to me for years. Yet I am hoping they will never be permitted to distress you. I have often turned those hard matters over and over in my mind and wondered why such hard blows should have been dealt um should have been dealt on you and have never been a have never been able to come to a satisfactory conclusion and have had to rest on the blessed promises that all things shall work together for good, for those who love God and keep his commandments. That was Emma’s situation. While at the same time, Brigham Young went on to build mansion after mansion after mansion among many others. Um He had many properties more than these, but he had the Beehive house, the lion house, the um farmhouse, the Saint George mansion, culminating in the embarrassingly extravagant monstrosity of the Gardo House all built while many people were suffering, suffering and and even dying from extreme poverty in the territory of Deseret in the state of Utah. Um they were suffering throughout Mormon and he was um doing this right. But um I think, I think that also should help us see how to look at these claims that he makes against Emma, but the claims against Emma didn’t stop there. So let’s go on July 26th, 1869 to the school of the prophets. Um This is again building on a story he had told years earlier, President Young alluded to Emma Smith’s prevailing on Joseph to take off his garments before he went to Carthage Hiram Smith and John Taylor did the same. But Willard Richards being charged by Joseph to never put them off would not for said Joseph Willard, the day will come when bullets will whistle by you on each side and men will fall on each side of you, but you shall be preserved. So the earlier story I think that this is building on is a um claim Brigham made July 14th 1861. He said, I recollect a promise Joseph gave to Willard at a certain time when he clothed him with a priestly garment said he Willard never go without this garment or on your body for you will stand where balls will fly around you like hail and men will fall dead by your side. And if you will never part with this garment, there never shall be a ball injure you. I heard him say this voice. Um a voice in the stand says, so did I, it is true when the mob shot Joseph Willard was there and Brother Taylor was in the room. I have nothing to say about the rest. You know about it, Willard or Willard obeyed the words of the prophet. He said, I will die before I will part with this garment. The balls flew around him, riddled his clothes and shaved a passage through one of his whiskers. There are so many things to say here. Um Anyway, I’ll, I’ll just, aside from the fact of Willard was what, um, Â£300 plus it was the middle of July in Carthage jail. And he was wearing wool, ankle to um, I mean, ankle to wrist garments under his many piece suit. And right anyway, there’s a lot to it, but I’m going to do a later episode on garments. But for now I’ll just say this much. There is no evidence I have found anywhere that ha that had, that says anything about garments being in, introduced before Joseph’s death when the Navoo Temple was um, with the Navoo Temple endowment, I can’t find anything during his lifetime. And certainly the idea of garments offering physical protection came much later. It is, this story is a complete anachronism and it’s just completely false. So, ok, we’ll go on to um August 24th, 1872. 0, I’m going to read a little bit before this because I think it’s interesting to see where we get our sort of threatening ideas that have, again, thankfully died down, but kind of the idea that if you leave the church you have nothing. Oh, those have been, those have been around a little bit. But I, I’m hoping that they’ve lessened but here they are with Brigham Young. What in the name of common sense is there to hang on to? If one does not hang on to the church, I do not know of anything. You might as well take a lone straw in the midst of the ocean to save yourself as to think of doing so by the knowledge, power, authority, faith, and priesthood of the Christian world and the heathen world in and, and the heathen world into the bargain. There is nothing but the gospel to hang on to those who leave the church are like a feather blown to and fro in the air. They know not whither they are going, they do not understand anything about their own existence.

[01:07:22] Their faith judgment and the operations of their minds are as unstable as the movements of the of, of the feather floating in the air. We have not anything to cling to only faith in the gospel. And then he goes on as for the doctrine that is promulgated by the sons of Joseph. It is nothing more than any other false religion. We would be very glad to have the privilege of saying that the Children of Joseph Smith junior, the prophet of God were firm in the faith of the gospel and following in the footsteps of their father. But what are they doing? Trying to blot out every vestige of the work their father performed on the earth? Their mission is to endeavor to obliterate every particle of his doctrine, his faith and doings. These boys are not following Joseph Smith, but Emma Beman, let’s continue on every person who hearkens to that um to hearkens to what they say, hearkens to the will and wishes of Emma Byman. The boys themselves have no will, no mind, no judgment, independent of their mother. I do not want to talk about them. I am sorry for them and I have my own faith in regard to them. I think the Lord will find them by and by not jo not Joseph, meaning Joseph the third. He’s the worst of them, right? I have told the people ti time and time enough, they never may be 10. Depend on Joseph Joseph Smith who is now living but David who was born after the death of his father. In other words, who didn’t know anything about his father? I think I need to go to the next slide who was born after the death of his father. I still look for the day to come when the Lord will touch his eyes. But it, but I do not look for it while his mother lives. The Lord would, would do it. Now if David were willing, but he is not. He places his mother in the first and the foremost and would take her counsel sooner than he would the counsel of the Almighty. Consequently, he can do nothing. He knows nothing. He has no faith. And we have to let the matter rest in the hands of God for the present. I want to also pay attention when he talks so much and so demeaning of if anybody were to follow a woman, which I think we’ll have a few more of those quotes coming up. But he also speaks the same way of mothers, right? I think it’s becoming more clear where we can. Um, where this horrible claims that like a 12 year old boy has more authority than his mother. Um where those things come from where the mother should hearken to her son rather than the son harkening to the mother. The way that he’s talking about David and Emma instead of being thankful that those boys honor their mother, he is, um, you know, basically calling out their manhood as a result or something. It’s very strange. This now is the last quote that we’ll look at this one was delivered August 9th, 1874. And it’s amusing to me that this was just a few months after William Clayton finally wrote his affidavit telling the same story. So, um I’m going, I’m going to read more than I wrote on the slide but you’ll hear a lot. So now, Latter day saints, I want to say this to you when a man lifts his heel against the counsel that we give him. I know that man will apostate just as sure as he is a living being unless he repents and refer from such conduct. Brother George. A Smith has been reading a little out of the revelation concerning celestial marriage. And I want to say to my sisters that if you lift your heels against this revelation and say that you would ob obliterate it and put it out of existence. If you have the power to nullify and destroy it. I say that if you imbibe that spirit and feeling, you will go to hell just as sure as you’re just as sure as you are living women. Emma took that revelation supposing she had all there was, but Joseph had enough wisdom, had wisdom enough to take care of it. And he handed the revelation to Bishop Whitney and he wrote it off after Joseph had been to see had been to B Bishop Whitney’s. He went home and Emma began teasing for the revelation. She said, Joseph, you promised me that revelation and if you are a man of your word, you would give it to me. Joseph took it from his pocket and said, take it. She went to the fireplace and put it in and put the candle under it and burned it. And she thought that was the end of it and she will be damned as sure as she is a living woman. Joseph used to say that he would have her hereafter if he had to go to hell for her and he will have to go to hell for her. As sure as he ever gets her. That’s the end of the part about Emma. But I wanted to, um, read the rest of this a little bit more just because it shows again the climate in Utah and how Emma, a strong and Godly woman who refused to submit to unrighteous Dominion and abomination was actually vilified to the women of the church and used against them to force them to submit, to keep sweet under any circumstance, right? Keep sweet. No matter what he continues to say, you sisters may say that plural marriage is very hard for you to bear. It is no such thing. Huh? A man or woman who would not spend his, his or her life in building up the kingdom of God on the earth without a companion and travel and preach valise in hand is not worthy of God or his kingdom

[01:12:26] and they never will be crowned. They cannot be crowned. The sacrifice must be complete. I think when he’s saying that you would do it without a companion, that means to women who for all practical, all intents and purposes don’t have a husband and with the release in hand might mean they don’t even have a home. They’re not secure in any way. Right? If it is the duty of a husband to take a wife, take her, but it is not the privilege of a woman to dictate the husband and tell who or how many he shall take or what he shall do with them when he gets them. But it is the duty of the woman to submit. Cheerfully says she, my husband does not know how to conduct himself. He lacks wisdom. He does not know how to treat, treat two wives and be just we can. It’s easy to hear those words because he’s minimizing them. There are so many examples of this, just the recent one I shared on the podcast, the woman who, who had the very, very sick child, who needed to go to the hospital, whose house was flooding and whose husband was at lagoon with the 16 year old younger sister of one of her sister, wives, right? Courting like and that doesn’t even hold a candle to some of the situations many of these women faced and he’s minimizing it just by saying he doesn’t know how to be just to two wives doing, you know, accusing them of whining right? That all may be true, but it is not her prerogative to correct the evil. She must bear that and the woman that bears wrong and any number of them do in this order patiently will be crowned with a man far above her husband. So the woman’s only hope is she can again, how we talked about it, turning your hearts away from your husband. When she sees her husband doing this horrible thing she can think in her mind. Well, I’m gonna have someone much better than you. Oh, I just, it’s, it’s crazy. And the man that is not worthy or, or who does not prove himself worthy before God, his wife or wives will be taken from him and given to another. So the woman need not worry. It is the man who has need to worry to watch himself and see that he does right? Where is the man who has wives, all of them think he is doing right to them. I do not know such a man. I know it is not your humble servant. If I would, if I would only be dictated to by women, I should make a hell of it, but I cannot be, I can humor them and treat them kindly. But I tell you that I shall do just what I know to be right? And they may help themselves the best they can. I do not say that in that in so many words, but that is what I mean. I let them act it out and I let them act it out. That’s the end of the quote. OK. I could continue on with many more quotes from other leaders as well. Um Here’s just one more example, this quote from John Taylor, I just couldn’t resist including this one. There are, you could spend hours and hours and hours reading through the early teachings on women, you know, including and after Brigham Young John Taylor said after the organization of the, of the society in NAVOO, much disturbance of a rose among the sisters, I do not want to be personal, especially as Sister Emma is dead. But I think that some of those circumstances should be known. Sister Emma got severely tried in her mind about the doctrine of plural marriage and she made use of the position. She held to try to pervert the minds of the sisters in relation to that doctrine. She tried to influence my wife to make her believe that the revelation was not correct. Mr Taylor was much troubled there at and asked me what it meant soon after that the prophet was at was in my house and I spoke to him in my wife’s presence in relation to what Sister Emma had said. And Joseph replied, Sister Emma would dethrone Jehovah to accomplish her purpose if she could, the things that they put in Joseph’s mouth claiming he said these things about his beloved wife. I cannot imagine he would look kindly on this at all. And if you look at, we are leaving out for some reason, everyone believing this narrative is believing the word of these known liars. We can go through so many of these things and prove lie after lie, after lie after lie. And yet these are the credible sources that we fully entrust to tell us what happened in Navoo to tell us who Joseph and Emma were. We ignore everything that Emma said, everything that anybody said because we listen to these guys. I do not understand it at all. So Brigham Young and many others said all of these things as I said over the pulpit, teaching in public meetings about the first strong Godly woman in the church, the wife of the founding prophet. Let me add this to the screen just so we can see who we are talking about. The um the wife of the founding prophet and dispensation head. The woman chosen by God to be the full partner in bringing forth the book of Mormon and the foundation of the gospel. The woman called the elect lady and commissioned and ordained to expound scripture and exhort the church. The woman who I would argue, sacrificed more for the restoration than any other person living at the time of the restoration or sin. And these were not all the lies. We have the stories in manufacture journals and later claims of her raging and screaming at Joseph and his supposed wives, selfish, selfishly, kicking them out of her house in a fit of rage, screaming and demanding gifts, stomping on watches and breaking things,

[01:17:54] pushing pregnant Eliza down the stairs angrily and jealously having Joseph followed screaming at him publicly and him having to treat her harshly just to shut her up and on and on. These stories are still clung to and pushed by lovers of polygamy who still ruthlessly abuse Emma and call her every name and accuse her of everything from insanity to prostitution, to alcoholism, to extreme greed and selfishness to child abuse, to being a literal servant of the devil and fighting against the restoration to again of being an an abusive wife and mother to a spiritually murdering thousands and on and on if I can, I want to share just this one slide of a post that um was recently put up. This was just in a recent conversation, I’ve had it, it came up while I was preparing this episode. So I was able to grab it. They go on and on the way that lovers and promoters of polygamy book inside and outside the church talk about Emma is despicable, truly despicable. So I’m gonna get us off that picture and go to this one. Instead, I will say that other than the polygamy lovers, as I said, inside and outside of the church who these kinds of comments and posts usually come from the narrative about Emma has shifted over the years since the time of Brigham Young and polygamy from the church leaders. If you search recent general conference talks, Emma is spoken of in kind in kind terms portrayed as Joseph’s only wife and mainly discussed in connection to the founding of the Relief Society, the sacrifices that she made and Doctrine and covenant section 25. But despite this massive softening of the discourse about her, the lies have never been acknowledged disavowed or condemned. There has been no repair and what’s more there is a central lie that we actually continue to promote the claim that Emma was responsible for Joseph’s death. So I’m going to read first from Saints chapter 44. And then I will go over the sources of the narrative told in saints. And then we’ll re we’ll look at saints another time and look at the um sources that they cite. Well, so I hope that that made sense. That’s how we’re going to approach this. So um this, so Joseph and Hiram had just left nuo in the middle of the night. So the story picks up the next day, the morning of June 23rd, 1844. That’s a day. We’re going to look in quite a bit as we investigate these claims. This is what Saint says later that morning, June 23rd, Emma sent Hiram Kimball and her nephew Lorenzo Watson to Iowa to convince Joseph to come home and turn himself in. They told Joseph that the governor intended to occupy Navoo with troops until he and his brother. Hiram gave themselves up. Porter returned soon after with Reynolds Cahoon and a letter from Emma again begging him to return to the city. Hiram Kimba Lorenzo and Reynolds all called Joseph a coward for leaving Nauvoo and exposing the saints to danger. I will die before I will be called a coward. Joseph said, if my life is of no value to my friends, it is of none to myself. He knew now that leaving Nauvoo would not, would not protect the saints, but he did not know if he would survive Carthage, what shall I do? He asked Porter, you are the oldest and ought to ought to know. Best. Porter said you were the oldest. Joseph said, turning to his brother. What shall we do? Let us go back and give ourselves up and see the thing out. Said, Hiram, if you go back, I shall go with you. Joseph said, but we shall be butchered if we live or die. Hiram said, we will be reconciled to our fate. Joseph considered that for a moment, then asked Reynolds to get a boat. They would turn themselves in. Emma’s heart sank when Joseph arrived home late that afternoon. Now that she saw him again, she feared she had called him back to his death. Joseph longed to preach once more to the saints, but he stayed with his, he stayed home with his family instead, he and Emma gathered their Children together and blessed them. It is a, aside from everything else, the thing that’s striking me right here is how very monogamous it is. Right. It’s very interesting. I just always find it interesting. OK? I, I wanna go through the, to show how this narrative developed and that’s how we can consider how reliable it maybe is or maybe isn’t. And then after that, we’ll look at the citations that Saints specifically uses to pretend this narrative is supported by worthwhile evidence. I’m sorry, I’m using some harsh language, but these things make me angry, they really do. Ok. Again, this whole thing is such a huge mess. It is hard to know where to even start those who have followed this podcast and study this topic, have some understanding of how the official history of the church was created. But I want to give a quick summary just to keep it fresh in everybody’s mind and to give a basic understanding to people who aren’t aware of this, Joseph did want a history kept revelations had been given com com commanding both Oliver Cowdrey and then John Whitmer to keep a history of the church. But unfortunately, it was tough to make it happen effectively and consistently, especially when there kept being divisions and other problems and it just, it wasn’t something they got off the ground very well. It wasn’t until Willard Richards became the church historian in December 1842 that real progress was made. And I can’t help but wonder how much of this nonsense could have been avoided if Joseph had been able to keep a consistent history before Willard Richards got his hands on it. But I know all things are in the Lord’s hands.

[01:23:41] Sometimes the Lord gives us commandments that we’re not able to fulfill for the Lord’s own purposes. And that’s just how it goes. So that’s where we are and that’s why we’re doing our work now. Right? We’re all part of this story that is ha that continues to unfold. Richards wrote the history of the Church through August 1835 before Joseph died. So we started practically at the beginning of the church and wrote up through August 1835 before Joseph died in, in June of 1844. Um I have no idea how involved Joseph might or might not have been in that pro in that process. I don’t know if he ever even saw it. Um I, I kind of doubt it because of how much he had going on, how often he was imprisoned. And, you know, people like to use the claim that he was too busy to be sleeping with his wives. And they say that’s why he had no Children. I think he was genuinely probably too busy to read all of the paperwork that Clayton and Richards and others spent all day every day writing. I don’t know how he could have done everything he was doing. Plus read everything that they were writing. So that tends to be my thought is that he didn’t really keep up with it very consistently. But at least we know he was alive while it was being written. A few months after Joseph’s death, Richards began a new method of writing church history. Um He started it when he got to August 1838. Instead of recording directly in the history. He started using rough drafts where he compiled, he, he had um draft versions of the history where he compiled the sources and created narratives which were then further revised before they were at finally added to the official church history. So that’s where the draft history comes from. It was the new system that Willard Richards started using after Joseph Smith’s death and it was Richards and then later historians, it was their intermediate step where they crafted the narrative to be added to the history of the church. So the best known example of this in our circles is of course the October 5th journal entry, right where we can see the original journal there on the left and then the draft history in the middle where you can see the changes being made and then the finalized version that looks like it’s, it’s just exactly how it happened, right? I’m really thankful that he started using this draft history because it reveals a lot to us about what was happening and what was being done. I’m really glad that they, they didn’t destroy all of these original sources. I’m glad that they got stuck in files somewhere probably never to be seen again, but I’m really glad that we have them. Now. It’s very helpful. I see God’s hand in it. So it’s important to note that this process of compiling and revising history was overseen by Brigham Young. So some of you will remember this quote. Um On Tuesday, April 1st 1845 Brigham recorded I commenced revising the history of Joseph Smith at Brother Richard’s office. Elder Heber C. Kimball and George A Smith were with me and he continued the next day and many, many days and years into the future, they were revising the history of Joseph Smith. That’s very interesting. Right? I know some people like to argue that the revisions are corrections. I think that’s a very hard claim to make when you go through all of the many revisions and all of the things they completely change. But, um, this, as I said, it’s such a huge mess. It’s hard to know where to begin. So I’m gonna look at this page of the history. This is what I happen to find. I was getting preparing um for the um panel that Justin Griffin had put together talking about Morgan Philpott. And I was researching a topic for that when I found this page of the history that I hadn’t read before. When I first saw it, I actually thought it was the draft version, the draft history because it had so many markings and crossings out and things written in the margins and changes that um that’s what I just assumed. I think I say in that conversation that it was the draft history. But um actually this was the official history that was done after the draft. This was the final, final copy. Most of it is a fair copy. But I guess this part of the narrative was just really hard to get right. And so there were lots of changes. So that’s the final history. We’re going to get to that. But first, let’s go ahead and look at the draft version because we do have that. And so um let’s see this interesting, this draft version, the only draft version we have only begins on the 22nd, the 22nd of June. The day we are looking at the 23rd is the day that Emma supposedly told Joseph to come back, wrote her letter to him and told him to come back to Navoo, which Brigham said, you know, Brigham adds that she told him to take his garments off because she wanted him to be able to be killed. And you know, that was after she had tried to poison him multiple times and everything. But um but the story, the narrative we keep telling is that she told him to come back to NAVOO implying that he was a coward, right? So um this was written in Utah in 1856 and says it was compiled from the,

[01:28:45] from the journals of Elder Richards and Wilfred Woodruff and others. And from documents on file again, we’re not told who the others are or what the other documents are. I haven’t been able to find anything that looks like it would be what they’re talking about. So anybody who wants to please feel free to pause and read this, but I’ll just say that it is very sparse. It bears practically no resemblance to the finalized versions. Any of those three crossed out versions and says absolutely nothing about Emma definitely nothing about Emma telling Joseph to come back. I did find it fascinating that while the entries for each of these days leading up to the martyrdom are so sparse, the 27th includes this. It makes sure to give us the whereabouts of every one of the apostles where they all were at the time of the martyrdom. I think that’s especially interesting when we hear Brigham say that, you know, there, there are accusations that it was the apostles that they make sure to give us their alibis and those alibis were included in an expanded version in the finalized history. And I find that very interesting. The general theme is that other than John Taylor Willard Richards who were with um Joseph and Hyrum in the jail, they were all out of state and each basically something along the lines of felt very sorrowful and depressed in spirits without knowing any cause some talk about how they laid on their bed and wept with grief not knowing why others were like, like, basically they all just had this sense of despair come over them. And it’s kind of funny to see how that grows between the um draft history and the finalized history. So you can see a little bit of what’s happening. It’s kind of fun to read through them if anybody wants to. So now that we’ve seen the draft of the 23rd and 20 the 22nd and 23rd, let’s look at the finalized version, which was written sometime after the draft. So the draft was done in 1856 in Utah. We don’t know when the finalized version was done. It was after that. Um Willard Richards had passed away in eight in 1854. So it wasn’t him doing this, but George A Smith that was new historian and he continued the work following the pattern that um well, that um Richards had set after. Um So we’re going to read this and then we’re going to look into the sources that were used to compile it. And of course, again, these pages will all be linked below. I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to keep um scrolling through. So hopefully it’s helpful to be able to read it on the screen, but it basically tells us um how it was constructed. It says an account of the arrest, imprisonment and martyrdom of president Joseph Smith and Patriarch Hyrum Smith in Carthage Jail, as collected from the journals kept at the time by Doctor Willard Richards. So we’re going to look at those journals and the statements published by John Taylor, Mrs Reed and Woods and John S Fuller and the writings and statements of Dan Cyrus H Wheelock, Steven Markham and many other persons who were personally acquainted with the transactions. So it claims to be based on quote, the journals kept at the time by Doctor Willard Richards, we are going to get into those but admits that other than that one contemporary source, Doctor Richards, it is based only on the late word of mouth accounts. Various people came up with Utah. So um we’ll get to that. So it cites Reynolds Cahoon saying that Hiram told him a company of men are seeking to kill my brother Joseph and the Lord has warned him to flee to the rocky mountains to save his life. In a few minutes afterward, Joseph came from his family, his tears were flowing fast. He, he held a handkerchief to his face and followed after brother Hyrum without saying a word. That’s according to Cahoon. It cites Phelps saying, um Joseph sent for WW Phelps and instructed him to take their families to Cincinnati by the second steamboat arriving in Nauvoo. Joseph then said, go to our wives and tell them what we have concluded to do and learn their feelings on the subject. And tell Emma you will be ready to start by the second steamboat and she has sufficient money wherewith to pay the expenses. Rockwell reported rowing them across the Mississippi in a leaking leaky skiff in the middle of the night. Um, then written in the margin so you could see it written in the margin there on the left. So that was clearly added later. It says that Joseph called a group to the upper room of the red brick store had Governor Ford’s letter read and then Joseph remarked, there is no mercy, no mercy there. Hiram said no, just as sure as we fall into their hands, we are dead men. Joseph replied, yes, what shall we do? Brother Hiram, he replied, I don’t know all at once, Joseph’s countenance brightened up and he said the way is over.

[01:33:29] It is clear to my mind what to do. All they want is Hiram Hiram and myself. There is no doubt they will come here and search for us, let them search, they will not harm you in person or property and not even a hair of your head. We will cross the river tonight and go away to the west. Then told um butler and Hodge two of the men there to he then did. He then told butler and Hodge two of the men there to put his and Hiram’s families and effects upon the mate of Iowa. Um Can I just point out how again and again, it’s their families, their one wife, each with their Children. Right. That’s what it said about their families and take them to Portsmouth where they would, where they would hear from them. So, ok, now we’ll get to the part about Emma, I think it goes on to the next page. So let me move that forward. Sorry, I’m doing a lot of things at the same time. So here we are on page 148. You can see if you look at this how one narrative was written and then crossed out. And the second narrative was written in between the lines of the first and then that was crossed out as well when the whole thing was crossed out and a third narrative was written below. So I have to ask why so many different narratives, especially when they already have the drafts collect the draft done and the draft has nothing to do with any of these narratives. So it really interesting, right? So, um anyway, let’s, let’s look into it. Here is the first version that was written and then crossed out. The first, the first paragraph of this first version cites Hosea Stout, the guy who many people including the Smith family suspected of poisoning Samuel Smith shortly after Josephson Hiram’s death and who also I believe threatened to kill William Clayton and you know, who knows how many others. And the second paragraph is credited to Phelps. So this is the first discarded version. Early in the morning, a posse arrived in navoo to arrest Joseph, but as they did not find him, they started back to Carthage immediately leaving one man of the name of Christopher Yates behind them who said to one of the brethren that Governor Ford designed that if Joseph and Hyrum were not given up, he would send his troops and guard to um and he would send his troops and guard the city until they were found. If it took three years to do it. About 11 a.m. Emma sent over Lorenzo D Watson and Hiram Kimball to entreat of Joseph and Hyrum to come back to NAVOO and give themselves up for trial and to inform them that to inform them what the governor intended to do in case they did not deliver themselves up. So then it can goes on to say William W Phelps said that about noon. He went to the house of Captain John Killian as proposed by Joseph the night before. In a short time afterward, Jonathan Dunham came in um, when they went, when they went to the house of William Jordan, where Joseph Hiram and Doctor Richards were and he told them that Emma refused to go, but that Hiram’s wife and the doctor’s wife agreed to follow counsel. That part just, uh, it just is so amusing. Right. Emma refused to go because she’s the bad one who wouldn’t come to Utah. But the other, the good polygamist wives agreed to follow counsel. Can I just point out that follow counsel is another Utah term? That is very much a Utah term that came about under Brigham Young and under polygamy. So this is clearly a later, um you know, that’s an anachronism, I guess we could say directly after words, Reynolds Khoon and Op Rockwell came in and Khoon commenced in um interceding with Hyrum for them to come back to NAVOO and stuck to it until he persuaded them to do so. Ok. So that was the first crossed out version. And then in between the lines, they had crossed out, they went on to write this. Um And nobody is cited for this version. At least I didn’t see that anybody was, they went to Mills Tavern and the officer in command exhorted Alfe Cutler and he Sherwood to have Joseph and Hyrum come back as the safety as of NAVOO depended on it. He pledged himself that their lives should be protected. Cutler was satisfied with this pledge. And he said it could be depended upon as he was an old acquaintance of his and agreed to use his influence to fetch them back. I have to say, based on some other um sources, we have. This sounds like the most likely version. If one of these versions is true. I think that part of this version has some other support to back it up. They went and informed Emma who requested them to go to Joseph and Hyrum and said that unless they returned and went to Carthage, navoo would be burned up and the people massacred that part. I do not believe at all. And I will get to why. Ok, about 11 o’clock, the posse had mounted their animals to return to Carthage. When Hiram Kimball laid his hand on Reynolds Kun’s shoulder and said there must be something done in this matter immediately or our property in the city will be of no value, whatever. And a number of men will be ruined. If Joseph leaves Kimball then called off, called the officer aside and promised if he would wait until 2 p.m. they would go

[01:38:35] over the river and try to persuade Joseph and Hyrum to come back upon that promise, the posse dismounted and the animals were ordered back to the stable. About this time, Lo Lyman O Littlefield came from the printing office in a great agitation and said to whom something must be done, we must get those men back or we shall all be destroyed. I must have some help immediately to pack away the printing press and fit feat and fixtures. Ok. So that’s the second version and it was also crossed out and below was written the third version, the one we still tell today and again, it has no citation here. It is at one o’clock PM. Emma sent over Oop Rockwell requesting him to entreat of Joseph to come back Reynolds Khoon accompanied him with a letter which Emma had written to the same effect. And she insisted that Khoon should persuade Joseph to come back and give himself up. When they went over, they found Joseph Hyrum and Willard in a room by themselves having flower and other provisions on the floor ready for packing. Reynolds. Cahoon informed Joseph that what of what the troops intended to do and urged upon him to give himself up inasmuch as the governor had pledged his faith and the faith of the state to protect him while they underwent a legal and fair trial. A Khoon LD Watson and Hiram Kimball accused Joseph of cowardice for wishing to leave the people, adding that their property would be destroyed and they left without house or home. Then um like the fable, when the wolves came, the shepherds ran from the flock and left the sheep to be devoured to which Joseph replied, if my life is of no value to my friends, it is of no to myself, Joseph then turned to Hiram and said, Brother Hiram, you are the oldest. What shall we do? Hiram said, let us go back and give ourselves up and see the thing out. After studying a few moments, Joseph said, if you go back, I shall go with you, but we shall be butchered. Hiram said, no, no, let us go back and put our trust in God and we shall not be harmed. The Lord is in it. If we live or, or have to die, we will be reconciled to our fate. Ok. So that’s the official version you could hear it read in Saints. After that, it goes on to quote from some letters that we are actually going to look at. And then on the next page, it continues on with the narrative. It says um it’s, it was through the strong persuasion of Reynolds, Cahoon Lorenzo Di Watson and Hiram Kimball who were carrying out Emma’s instructions that induced Joseph and Hyrum to start back to Navoo. They recrossed the river at half past five when they arrived at his mansion in Navoo, Joseph’s family surrounded him. Um and he tarried there all night giving up the idea of preaching to the saints by Starlight. So I do want to remind everyone how this um the the tone in which this narrative would have been written, right? Brigham Young was overseeing it. Remember what it meant to take counsel from a woman, all of those things we’ve seen, right? This was not a um complementary um narrative that they are telling, we are going to go into the many problems with this narrative and other than the obvious problems of them coming up with various versions that all contradict each other in important ways. But before that, I just want to point out that even these created histories, even in these versions created in Utah by polygamist, they still had to acknowledge the truth of Joseph’s family that it was only Emma and their Children together. That was Joseph’s entire family. It’s surprising to me that they didn’t try to build anything into it, of him with other wives or you know, of any other. It’s really interesting to me that even there they had to like acknowledge the truth that Joseph only had one wife that he was worried about and that was worried about him and that he was communicating with in any way. So, OK, so now though, let’s look into the sources that this claim that this, that this narrative claims to be based on and then we’ll look up the acu do actual documentation and what it tells us. So the first thing to remember is that this account was collected from journals. Let me get back there. Um It says that it was collected from journals which were kept at the time by Willard Richards. So we’re going to start there. The journals it must be talking about are Joseph Smith’s journal which was written by Willard Richards. Um and Willard Richards own journal. So this is the very last page in Joseph’s journal that was kept by Willard Richards. You can clearly see that it ends on June 22nd the day before Emma was supposed to have told Joseph and Hiram to come back to Navoo to be killed. This um is all that it says in um it said it prophesized six o’clock PM prophesized that in the sickly season that sickness would enter into their houses and vex them and until they would fain repent in dust and ashes and they will be smitten with a scab and et cetera.

[01:43:21] Seven o’clock received a written invitation from James Hamilton and five or six others to preach tomorrow. Ok. Feel free to go and read through the church history account, the history of Joseph Smith account of the 22nd. So you can see that nothing from this journal was included, but a whole bunch of stuff that isn’t in this journal was included. Um There is a very helpful and rather amusing note written on this page of the Joseph Smith papers. So let me see if I can get there and I will share this screen with you. So um it goes on to this long editorial explanation down here that you’re seeing. So the journal, I mean, the journal only says that little bit right here, but then it goes on to explain all of this in the editorial note. And I just want to read a little portion. It said um it acknowledges that Joseph Smith’s journal ended with the 22nd of June 1844 entry. Then provides some information about the letters written after that, which we will look at and then at the very bottom, it says quote in an account based on reminiscent sources and clearly influenced by intervening events, compilers of Joseph Smith’s history later wrote that, that he left Nauvoo for quote the Great Basin in the Rocky Mountains. Um When you click on the footnote, it says the term, let me click on that footnote for you. So you can see where it is. It explains a true fact that the term Great Basin was not used Joseph in Joseph Smith’s lifetime. So I love that right there. The Joseph, the editors are telling us, I, I love that they’re acknowledging that that this was clearly a later creation, Joseph Smith’s History, which is what we’ve been reading from. I’ve been calling it the History of the Church, but it’s actually Joseph Smith’s history that I believe was republished as the History of the Church. Someone can correct me on that. But that’s my understanding at this point. I just realized I didn’t double check on that like I like to do. But um so it’s saying that at some later um source, it, it, it said that. So let’s look at what that might be. Here we go. Um This is the journal entry and now here’s that later source. It’s this very page that we were just written from, that we were just reading from, right? This is where it says that they made ready to start for the Great Basin in the Rocky Mountains. It’s like the greatest telltale sign that these are indeed just later creations that are not very credible. This is why we need to really prioritize the actual source documents that we have, that we have and not rely too heavily on the later Utah constructed history of NAVOO. So, ok, now we’ll go on to the other journal that it would have been talking about. This is Willard Richards own journal. Um This entry is for June 23rd, 1844 the day Emma was supposed to, well, that she supposedly wrote and sent her letter telling Joseph to come back. Um Here is all it says, I’ve tried to blow it up so you can see what a nightmare it is to try to read it. I am so thankful that the Joseph, the papers included at least um some pages of this journal because it is a nightmare to try to read. So again, it says, um two o’clock AM arrived on the bank about daybreak, walked up to be about sunrise, wrote blank and sent express about noon. Doctor Bernheisel came at Blank Reynolds Cahoon and ex governor’s letter. Um That’s, that’s basically uh was it explained Governor’s letter? Yes, that’s what it was. So, ok, that’s the history we have from the two journals that it claimed that it used to create this history. So I just wanted to use those two as a demonstration to show you the source documents that Joseph Smith’s history cites to and claims to be using and isn’t using at all. And all of the things that they are making up on their own in Utah. Right? And the very different versions that they’re making up and sure people can give later reports of something and sometimes those can be valid. But when they all, but we should acknowledge that it’s a mess and it’s pretty hard to get the truth that way. Right. We like the later stories, but they cannot be the thing that we depend on in order to ignore all of the other facts on the ground, especially when there’s conflict, right? They those later sources need to be backed up with um better evidence. Otherwise they just need to be looked at um later stories, right? That don’t have very much validity. So, OK, I want to just go over a couple of the other sources that could have been used that people might think are used. So you can see whether or not they were used. So first of all Clayton’s journal, right? We just have this very short entry and William Clayton’s journal that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. Certainly doesn’t say anything about Emma. This is a really interesting source.

[01:48:26] So William Clayton during this time period also constructed a separate really weird extra journal. So this is in addition to his own journal. And in addition to the Joseph Smith journal that Willard Richards is keeping William Clayton just for these few days from June 14th to June 22nd, created his own version of Joseph Smith’s journal. Where he’s basically writing this from the perspective of Joseph Smith, as if, as if it’s Joseph Smith’s journal so weird and bizarre and should make us all really suspicious. There are some interesting things, um, that the Jo, that the Joseph Smith, his, um, editors say about it, but again, it has absolutely nothing to do with the history that was included. It was completely ignored. So I’m going to share one other source that I found fascinating that was new to me that when, um, in, in, in the finalized history, the Joseph Smith historian, the Joseph Smith papers, historians cite Hosea Stout in the Novo Legion history to back up that part of the narrative. It’s interesting because I don’t think that the, um, document itself sites stout by the Joseph Smith papers, his editors add that in. So I, it took me a long time to find this a really, really long time. Once I find it, then I always find an easier way to find it after the fact. But when I’m just trying to find things, I waste hours. I, I like, maybe, I don’t know, I need like a another historian friend that I can call that can help me find things because I don’t know how to do it faster. Sometimes it’s really hard, but I am really glad I stuck with it and found this and looked it up. Um It’s a very interesting source. It’s the Novo Legion history and for anyone else that wants to find it. If you go on the church history library, you can look up MS 3430 folder 10 page 29. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of misfiling with it. There are a lot of um duplicate really weird pages and things missing or not in the right place. So, um and I, I wasn’t able to get a hold of my source at the church history library who I like to work with, who can help me with things like this. So anyway, so I just will share with you this one page I was able to find that’s one of the pages dealing with the 27th. It’s really hard to read on the slide. But again, I’ll include the link and you can see the um transcript I made, I, I made the transcript of this. I did spend hours and hours on this. It transcribed the entire thing, but I’m only including this part on the 27th of June. Colonel Markham asked General Smith if he would not tell by the Spirit as he did at Dixon, how he would come out, meaning come out of Carthage, come out of the jail to which he said, Joseph said, I have heard that, I think it means harkened. I have hearkened to the brethren and gone to Carthage, contrary to the Councils of the Spirit. And I am now no more than any than another man. I can do nothing for myself if there is anything done, the brethren has got to do it this scene, the scene of this day is written elsewhere. So this was really interesting and again shows that it wasn’t Emma that convinced him to come back. Right. He says that it was the brethren that he hearkened to. I think that’s another interesting source to consider. I, I could not find any indication of when this was written. And so I’m really not sure if it’s reliable. Um It’s interesting to me that it does go along with Brigham’s harsh criticism of Joseph delivered over the pulpit at the Salt Lake Tabernacle March 21st, 1858 which would have been a similar time to when this history was being worked on. So, you know, it is possible that both of these um narratives were constructed at a similar time and kind of relied on each other the way this source looks, it does not look like it’s some um official history book. So I really don’t know what this novel Legion History is or when it was written. And I would tend to just throw these out. But there’s another, again, like I said, the, the later Utah um histories have to be nailed down with something better in order to, to believe them. So there is something that I think kind of nails this down that we look at, but I’m going to go ahead and read from um Brigham Young’s talk on this topic when he’s quite critical of Joseph. He says, I will deviate from my subject a little and say a few words with regard to brother Joseph that some perhaps may have not understood. If Joseph Smith Junior, the prophet had followed the spirit of revelation in him, he never would have gone to cart. Do you understand that? Voices in the audience yell? Yes. A great many do and some do. Not. Many of the first elders of this church have a different understanding. They are under the impression that he went there. According to his own choice, Joseph intended to go west. That’s not true. He designed to raise a company to come to the very country we now occupy also not true. We’ll get to it. He said, I can, I can see life and liberty and revelation in that course. But if I return to give myself up, it is death and darkness to the full. I am like a lamb led to the slaughter. And never for one moment, did he say that he had one particle of light in him

[01:53:36] after he started back from Montrose to give himself up in navoo. This he did through the persuasion of others. I want you all to understand that when he says others, I think he’s implicating Emma because that’s who he blamed with regard to myself. I cannot say what I will do. I do not know precisely in what manner the Lord will lead me. But were I thrown into the situation, Joseph was, I would leave the people and go into the wilderness? I think this is before his sermon where he said he would look out for number one because he’s not as good of a man as Joseph is um and go into the wilderness and let them do the best they could. Will I run from the sheep? No, will I forsake my flock? No. But if Joseph had followed the revelations in him, he would have been our earthly shepherd today and we would have heard his voice and followed the shepherd instead of the shepherds following the sheep. When the shepherds f when the shepherd follows the sheep, it reverses the natural order for the sheep. Are to follow the shepherd. I want you to understand that if I am your earthly shepherd, you must follow me or else we shall be separated. As I told the people after Joseph’s death, they might cling to the 12 and receive salvation and be led in the way of truth and holiness or go to hell if they pleased for, we ask no odds of them I feel. So today, that is the way I feel about many families in the church. A great many parents follow off their Children and men follow their women. For a man to follow a woman is in the sight of heaven disgraceful to the name of a man and it is disgraceful for, for parents to follow their Children. I am your leader. Latter day saints. You must follow me. And if you do not follow you, follow me, you may expect that I shall go my way and you may take yours if you please, I shall do as the spirit dictates me. So again, it’s interesting that these two sources in some ways align saying that Joseph came back by the persuasion of others. Um I, I wouldn’t personally use these to validate one another because um it could just, I I think be telling us more about what was happening in Utah than what was happening in Nauvoo, right? Because those sources could have been brought out at the same time or they could have been relying on one another. Um In what they were saying as seemed to be the case often, like um William Clayton would write an affidavit and then Brigham would teach, would preach the ideas that were written in the affidavit, right? So that’s interesting how that happened. But like I said, there’s another source we’re going to get to that. Um I think, does le lend some credibility quite a bit of credibility to the idea that it was the brethren accusing Joseph of cowardice that told him to come back? I think the thing that’s really interesting is that in the novi legion source, the blame seems to be put on the brethren if we have to have blame. Whereas Brigham Young solidly puts the blame directly on Joseph Smith, he really blames Joseph himself for his own death. So, um, but like I said, unfortunately, we don’t just have to rely on these later historians because now we have access to the actual firsthand contemporaneous sources, specifically, the letters written to and from Joseph in the days during the days in question. And I think we should look at these, right. The first ones we’ll consider are the love letters to and from Governor Ford, which show us the real reason Joseph was willing to come back and turn himself in. So letters had already been exchanged on the 22nd and the 23rd with Ford accusing Joseph and Joseph plea pleading his case and express expressing reluctance to turn himself in. So I, I go into these um in episode, it’s, I think it’s the third episode of exposing the expositor. I want to say it’s episode 87. I looked it up. So I think that’s what it is. So, um I’ll read from one of these letters that was written at midnight before Joseph crossed the river out of Navoo. So that midnight on the 22nd, right before the morning of the 23rd, um He said he’s just explaining and I want to read it because it’s heartbreaking Joseph explaining why he can’t come to Carthage like Governor Ford is telling him to do. He said not withstanding this we would not hesitate to stand another trial according to your excellence. He wished he’s saying even though we’ve already stood trial by a non Mormon judge, were it not that we are confident our lives would be in danger? We dare not come writs we are assured are issued against us in various parts of the country. For what to drag us from place to place from court to court across the creeks and p prairies till some bloodthirsty villain can find his opportunity to shoot us. We dare not come though. Your excellency promises protection. Yet at the same time, you have expressed fears that you could not control the mob. In which case we are left to the mercy of the merciless. Sir. We dare not come for our lives would be in danger and we are guilty of no crime, sir. You must not blame us for a burnt child dreads the fire and although your excellency might be well, dis dis though your excellency might be well disposed, the matter, the appearance of the mob forbids are coming. We dare not do it. And I think that’s something that people should pay more attention to who

[01:58:26] are so critical of Joseph and how he handled all of this. Like I wish people would watch that expos episode who haven’t and really consider the situation and what was happening and really look at the first hand evidence and see what was happening because it’s really quite clear. And so, um, let me though, show we’re going to go to this next letter that was written the next day. This is a letter that Joseph wrote that same morning. So he wrote that first letter on the 22nd at midnight. This letter he wrote the next morning also to Governor Ford. And I think it gives us a lot of insight into Joseph deciding to return to NAVOO. He says, sir, I wrote you a long communication at 12 last night. Expressive of my view of your excellency, communication of yesterday. I thought your letter rather severe. But one of my friends has just come to me with an explanation from the captain of your posse which softened the subject matter of your communication. So this validates the idea that um someone went and told Jo and talked to Joseph, right, that friends of the captain went and talked to Joseph about it. So that could be very true and gives us greater assurance of protection and that your excellency has succeeded in bringing in sub subjection, the spirit which surrounds your excellency to some extent. And I declare again, the only objection I ever had or ever made to trial by my country at any time was what I have made in my last letter on account of assassins and reason I have to fear deathly consequences from their hands. But from the explanation, I now offer to come to you at Carthage on tomorrow So that’s really interesting. Right. I think that that gives us in Joseph’s own words, written and sent that very day the explanation of why Joseph changed his mind and went to Carthage. I think that there could definitely be truth and looks to me like there is that some of the men went to, went to Joseph concerned and told him to come back and accused him of cowardice. We’ll get to that too. But what we can also say is that it had nothing to do with Emma calling him a coward, being selfish, being careless, wanting him dead. All the claims I have heard about that narrative that she told Joseph to come back and turn himself in, there is zero evidence that Emma had anything to do with wanting Joseph to come back and we’re going to get to it. So there are some very strong evidence against it. Now, I want to show you another letter that is even more important than this one. This is the letter that Joseph Smith wrote to Emma on June 23rd the morning that Emma supposedly wrote to Joseph and told him to come back. Right? You’ll remember earlier. I said that um in Clayton’s journal, it said that he had delivered a letter and that the Joseph Smith papers speculates that could be this letter to Emma who knows most of these letters just say interim content, which means that the Joseph Smith editors haven’t. Joseph Smith papers, editors haven’t yet written up their, um, source notes and their historical background information on them. So, but it does tell us that it’s Willard Richards handwriting. I’m, I, I believe that’s what it says. But in any case, we know that this was actually written and was actually sent because I, I do have a few questions about some of the other letters that Joseph was supposed to have written, written and sent to Emma during the last days of his life because they never seem to have gone to Emma because the church continued to have them in its possession. But this letter remained with the R LDS church. So we know that it was sent to Emma and that Emma kept it. And um as a result, the the church historians in Utah didn’t have access to it. So this is what it says. Brother Lewis has some money of mine. Hebrew C. Kimball has $1000 in his hand of mine, Brother Nef Lancaster. Um 4 $400. You may sell the Quincy property or any property that belongs to me. You can find anything about for your support and the Children and mother do not despair. If God ever opens a door, that is possible for me. I will see you again. I do not know where I shall go or what I shall do. So remember Brigham saying he was going to the Great Basin and that’s what God told him to do, right? But shall if possible endeavor to get to the city of Washington? So where was he trying to go? May God Almighty, bless you and the Children and mother and all my friends. My heart bleeds no more at present. If you conclude to go to Kirtland, Cincinnati or any other place, I wish you would continue to inform, continue to inform me this evening. Again, is Joseph giving Emma instructions of where she needs to go? Right. Do you see how important it is to read their actual letters and pay attention to them and believe what they say? And, uh, anyway, there is so much here. It clearly shows Joseph’s concern and desire to make sure his family is provided for. Show me anything even remotely like this in any way to any other woman, to any other supposed wife. It is so ridiculous and offensive. It shows that Hebrew Kimball did owe him money and that he should have given it to Emma. It shows that Joseph’s and Emma’s relationship was strong that he desperately desired,

[02:03:51] they desperately desired to see each other. Again, there’s no way she wanted him dead. It shows clearly what property he believed she had access to and that she should be able to sell and note. He doesn’t say anything about the land he had supposedly deeded to her and, um, to make sure that she would be ok in just such a circumstance, right? It makes it clear that he had no intention of going west, that he had not instructed her where to go. And it in general exposes all of the lies told in the later compiled histories. This is why this is so important the actual sources and this is why it’s such a blessing that we have these contemporaneous sources that reveal to us the truth about Joseph’s and Emma’s relationship and why it is so important that we start prioritizing those, start letting go of our outdated narrative that is based on that, that is based on people’s making sense of things. When they didn’t have these sources, we have them. Now we need to do better. We should absolutely prioritize these sources over the later Utah accounts or the anti Mormon accounts, even if they do seem in some bizarre ways to validate each other because they make the same accusations, even though they’re different in all of the details, we’ll get into that more in future episodes. So, but now there’s just one more thing I think we need to cover and that is the account recorded. And what we are now told is our definitive source for the true history of the church. And that’s saints. I read through this before, but I want to read through it again. Look carefully at the citations. I know we’ve been going for a while, but I just, I felt like all of this was important to include. So let me share my screen so we can read straight through it together again. We’re just going to read that same section that starts pretty much on the morning of the 23rd. So, ok, here we go. Let me scroll down to it. I marked it so I should be able to find it quickly. Ok. It says later that morning again, the 23rd Emma sent Hiram Kimball and her nephew Lorenzo Watson to Iowa to convince Joseph to come home and turn himself in. They told Joseph that the governor intended to occupy Navoo with troops until he and his brother Hyrum gave themselves up. Porter returned soon after with Reynolds Cahoon and a letter from Emma again begging him to return to the city. Hiram Kimball Lorenzo and Reynolds, um all called Joseph a coward for leaving Nauvoo and exposing the saints to danger. So again, does anyone want, we have the letter that Joseph wrote to Emma on the 23rd? Does anyone want to guess if we have a letter that Emma supposedly wrote to Joseph on the 23rd, even though he came back to Navoo where it would have been certain to have been filed away? No, we don’t. This is the citation you can see right here. It’s Joseph Smith’s history that we just looked at and Willard Richards Journal just so you remember that is this source that we looked all through and um that, yeah, that messy source and this source, Willard Richards Journal that, how is it citing that? Right? So those are the sources it cites to give us that part of the narrative. I’m not terribly impressed. Ok. Now we’ll go on that with citation number 16. It says I will die before I will be called a coward. Joseph said, if my life is of no value to my friends, it is of none to myself. He knew now that leaving NAVOO would not protect the saints, but he did not know if he would, if he would survive going to Carthage, what shall I do? He asked Porter, it goes back where they ask each other the questions. Um If we live or die, Hyrum said, we will be reconciled to our fate. Joseph considered that for a minute, then asked Reynolds to get a boat, they would turn themselves in and we’ll look at the citations for this. Ok. So it again is Joseph Smith’s history that we just looked at, but now it introduces a new one, a visit to Navoo in 1856. Ok. We’re going to get to that in just a minute. And then it also the Joseph Smith history that we just looked at right, that exact page. So, um we’re going to look at that in a minute, but let’s first go on to this next paragraph because this is the one that really gets me, all of it does. But this one especially Emma’s heart sank when Joseph arrived home late that afternoon. Now that she saw him again, she feared she had called him back to his death. It was all her fault, right? This one cites Briggs a visit to Navoo in 1856. It’s the same one that was cited above along with Joseph Smith’s history. But this one just cites Briggs a visit to Navoo. Ok. Now this, this source took me again a long time to figure out. So I’m going to explain it to you. So you don’t have to try to figure it out on your own. So let me add this to the stage again. Edmund C. Briggs was an apostle of the R LDS church in 1901 through 1903. He published his autobiographic sketch and incidents in the early history of the reorganization in the R LDS periodical, The True Saints Herald. So that’s the source for this, right? And then in, that’s the original source. In 1916, selections from Briggs, autobiographic sketch were rep were reprinted in the R

[02:09:30] LDS Journal of History volume nine under the title, a visit to Nauvoo in 1856. This is the source that Saints is citing, right? So this is the original source sections of it. Selections, excerpts from it were included in this historical journal and this is what Saints is citing. So it’s an R LDS source. OK. It’s frustrating that I had to spend hours sorting this out when they could have simply just cited the original article that actually you can find, you know, it was so hard to find that that R LDS 1916, his histo historical journal that was really hard to figure out and hard to find. So I am frustrated again that historians always cite each other and just instead of just citing the original source, right? But even better yet, they could have just cited. This is the early history of the reorganization by Apostle Edmund C Briggs. And this is where um um the prices republished. The, it’s an exact copy of the autobiographic sketch that was published in 1901 through 1903 in the Saints Herald. They took it and put the whole thing in this book. It is available on their website and it’s available online. You can read it online. It’s wonderful. This is the site and this is the source that is citing. So we are going to look at what the citation is. So, um let’s see. OK, I’m going to remind us of what, what Saints said before. I, I read what, what they cite to back it up. They said Emma’s heart sank when Joseph arrived home late that afternoon. Now that she saw him again, she feared she had called him back to his death. That specifically is the part that is being cited. So this is the page in either of these books in the historical version, the historical journal. If you wanna look at that online? It’s pages 453 through 454 or in this nice little book. It’s page 83. And I’ve already double checked that they are word for word exactly the same. So I’m going to read this portion. I then said to her, this is Edmund C Briggs visiting Emma in Navoo. I then said to her, did Joseph have any knowledge or premonition of his death before it took place? She replied, yes, he was expecting it for some time before he was murdered. About the time he wrote those letters that are in the book of Covenants, he was promised if he would go and hide from the church until it was cleansed. He should live until he had accomplished his work and the redemption of Zion. And he once left home, intended not to return until the church was sifted and thoroughly cleansed. But his persecutors were stirring up trouble at the time and his absence provoked some of the brethren to say that he had run away and they called him a coward. This is why I think there could be validity to that part of the claim because it’s backed up by Emma’s testimony as well. And Joseph heard of it and he then returned and said, I will die before I will be called a coward. He was going to find a place and then send for the family. So again, that’s why he doesn’t know where he’s going to go. He doesn’t know where she’s going to go. He’s saying please keep me informed about what you decide to do and I’ll go somewhere and send you word. Right. That’s what Emma is saying. He was going to find a place and then send for the family again, his family, his only family, Emma and their Children. Even the Joseph Smith history composed later by the Utah historians had to acknowledge that. But when he came back, I felt the worst I ever did in my life. And from that time I looked for him to be killed and had felt so bad about it that when he was murdered, I was not taken by surprise and did not feel so bad as I had for months before. So are you hearing this? She did not want him to come back. She knew that he was going to go somewhere that if he would stay away from the church until it was cleansed, his life would be preserved and he could carry on his work. She expected him to go somewhere. She was going to try to go somewhere. He would send her word of where they were. That was the plan. And when she saw him come back, she knew he was going to be killed. And that is not what she wanted. Ah Makes me so mad that we cite this in that way. While she talked to us, the tears flowed from her large bright eyes like rain and I could see in every act affection for Joseph. Ok. Which one is true? Brigham Young’s version of history given over the pulpit everywhere in Utah or this simple history of Edmund C Briggs quoting Emma on her own behalf, right? When he went and talked to her about it, who, who should we believe about Emma Smith about the founding matriarch? I, I think that it’s so frustrating. I, I mean, it’s truly unbelievable that this is what Saints does. That this is our history that’s being given to us that we are being taught in some ways. I’m really glad that they cite this source because it shows that they are at least familiar with it, but it is beyond infuriating that they cite it so they can say that they cited it, I guess while completely ignoring everything it says. There is absolutely nothing anywhere in this book that leaves any room for the claims that they made about Joseph and Emma for any of the claims throughout Saints,

[02:15:08] they claim that Joseph and Emma were at odds with each other that Joseph was having an affair that they were having all these marital struggles and certainly not that uh that Emma contributed in any way to Joseph’s death. It makes it abundantly clear that what she wanted more than anything was to have him leave and be safe and that she was devastated when he came back. But that that is not all they ignore in this. So one of the main reasons, maybe the central reason Briggs wrote this autobiography was to prove that Brigham Young’s church with its focus on polygamy had gone astray from the church founded by Joseph Smith, that Brigham Young was promoting doctrines that Joseph Smith had not taken part in. That Joseph was not a polygamist. That was one of the main reasons. So I’m just going to quote few other little portions of this book just from a couple of chapters, not very far into it. I haven’t even read the entire thing yet because I haven’t had a time. But I just want to share some of the things I have read. So you can get a sense for what this book says that they are citing in Saints to make the claims that they’re making in chapter. Um in chapter eight, Briggs quotes Emma saying I never had confidence in Brigham Young and Joseph did not some time before his death. I also wanna note the tone, the way that Emma does talk about Brigham Young and that Briggs talks about Brigham Young compared to the way that Brigham Young talks about Emma, right? She’s just telling true facts. Emma, I mean, Brigham is making these incredible accusations and saying she’s the most wicked woman in the history of the world and that she’s certainly going to hell, right? All of these things. So chapter nine sister Emma was an exceptionally good woman whom everybody spoke out, spoke of as an example, worthy of imitation. In fact, the whole family were esteemed by all people who knew them as good worthy citizens above reproach, having the reputation of being strictly moral and temperate in all things that’s talking about Emma and her Children. This is in Navoo after Joseph had died and people, everybody other than the Mormons had moved in. This is also from chapter nine, the people in and out of the church about Navoo who personally knew Joseph Smith before he was murdered, oh, in and out of the church. So this is both church members and non-members who lived in Navoo before Joseph was murdered. They spoke of him with respect and declared he was a good, honorable man, a worthy citizen and declared the scandalous stories circulated about him were base misrepresentations put in circulation because of religious intolerance or by his political enemies. Exactly the claim that we are making, right? People can just say it’s just a rebooted R LDS claim, maybe it’s just the truth and they were saying the truth and we are discovering the truth and then we realized that the narratives match maybe that’s the case. And if anyone ever again wants to say that this old R LDS claim is debunked. Show me where it has even been dealt with, let alone debunked, right? Uh OK. At the same time, the new, this is still quoting Briggs at the same time, the newcomers in the city after the death of Smith who spoke against him were rabid in their denunciation of him and delighted in telling extravagant stories about him though they had never had seen him. So the people who actually lived there when he was there both in and out of the church who knew him said one thing about him and everyone that came in after had all of these crazy things they were spreading, right? The power of gossip, right? This thought impressed me as very singular and strange that in this enlightened age, a man who had done so much to stir up the whole religious world in the very place where he lived and was murdered should be spoken so well of by his old neighbors. Though they did not believe in his prophetic calling or his religion and his enemies who were not personally acquainted with him should tell all manner of evil things about him that he preached and practiced polygamy in navoo. But all who personally knew Joseph Smith in and out of the church denied in the most emphatic manner that Smith ever taught or practiced polygamy in NAVOO. He just gives us two quotes. Mr Rh Loomis, who was an honorable man and well acquainted with Joseph said, I believed Mr Smith was an honest and consent was honest and conscientious in his religion. He and did not to teach or practice polygamy and sister Emma and speaking of the condition of the church after her husband’s death, said to me, I was threatened by Brigham Young because I opposed and denounced his measures and would not go west with them. At that time, they did not know where they were going themselves. But he told me that he would yet bring me prostrate to his feet. My house was set on fire several times and one time wood was piled up at the side of my house and set a fire. It burned the siding considerably and went out before we discovered it.

[02:19:55] It was either set on fire or by accident or carelessness. Caught a caught fire a number of times and went out of itself when did not discover it and put it out. But I never had any fear that the house would burn down. As long as the inspired translation of the Bible was in it. I always felt safe when it was in the house for, I knew it could not be destroyed and interesting how she’s prophetic, right? With all of this, it wasn’t destroyed. That’s really interesting. She spoke very affectionately of Joseph and said I had, I never had any reason to oppose him for we were always on the best terms. Our best of terms ourselves. It goes on to quote her for the last 18 months or two years before his death. It seemed the best elders were kept away from the church as much as possible on missions and the worst characters in the church hovered around him all the time. When Sister Emma made the above statement, it was a real revelation to me. I had not realized before how the church came to be so came to so soon run into such a horrible apostasy. She spoke so endearingly of Joseph in confidence, tears filling her eyes that I could see. She reverenced his very memory and had a and had full faith in Joseph’s inspiration as a prophet of God. And she always denied to me in the most emphatic language that he taught or practiced polygamy again. She said several times in conversation with me that the Utah Mormons had by their acts since the death of her husband made true all the slanders and the vile things charged against the church. I was also present with when my brother Jason Briggs asks sister Emma in relation to the purported revelation on polygamy published by Orson Pratt in 18 52. And she again denied that her husband ever taught polygamy or that she ever burned any manuscript of a revelation purporting to favor polygamy. And that quote, the statement that I burned the original of the copy Brigham Young claimed to have is fault and made out of whole cloth and not and not true in any particular. Ok. I’m just gonna read a few more things. Emma Joseph’s wife and secretary, the partner of all his toils of all his glories coolly firmly, permanently denies that her husband had any other wife than herself. She declared, she declares the story to be false, the rebel of fraud. She denounces polygamy as the invention of young and pratt a work of the devil brought in by them for the destruction of God’s new church. On account of this doctrine, she has separated herself from the saints of Utah and has taken up her dwelling with what she calls a remnant of the true church at Navoo, which shall we believe? This is Briggs. And I could not say any of this better myself, which shall we believe. Sister Emma, the elect lady and wife and, and prophet’s wife or the bold unsupported statement of Brigham Young is what the book of Mormon calls the Grosser Crime. Now, what Mr Young calls the only means of exaltation and glorification and all this great change to rest on the uncertainty of a purported purported copy of a purported revelation burned by a woman. It is too absurd and a rebuke to good common sense. It cannot be entertained by an honest thinking, logical mind for a single moment. Those are just a few snippets from the book that Saints claims to cite in their narrative on Joseph and Emma Smith. I could go on and on. I highly recommend that everybody get and read this book. I want to sincerely thank Cheryl and Dan Kloot for sending it to me. It is an important book that I think everybody should read. You can find it online, you can contact the restoration book or the link will be below. I again, just have to ask everybody that wants to elevate women’s voices. What are we doing with Emma? Right. What are we doing with Emma? When I hear the, the anti Mormon R LDS, I mean, um polygamy narrative supporting crowd say that. Well, of course, she would lie about it. She wanted to support her son. She didn’t want to admit her husband did you? Are you are dismissing everything that everybody whoever knew her said about her, right? You are dismissing the day, the year after year after year that her consistent claims always were the same, right? And then for the people in the church who keep pushing this narrative, like really people say to me all the time, someday you’re gonna have to face Brigham Young, like how are you gonna feel when you have to face Brigham Young? And then, and first of all, I didn’t know I was going to be judged by Brigham Young. But um I think that’s such a weird claim. I um hope to not see Brigham Young. And if I do, I don’t think I’m the one that needs to be on the worrisome end of that. But um if anyone is ever thinking that they might encounter Joseph Smith, what do you want to have been on record saying about his wife. Right. I’ll ask that sincerely and for all of the people who are not believers in the restoration, but who value women. Can we please give at least some degree of respect to Emma and consider the two narratives. You are going to side with Brigham Young in telling the stories about who Emma Smith was and all of the events of her life when we have her on record time and time again, telling her own story. How does that make any sense? I cannot understand it at all. But this is what we have to understand.

[02:25:28] We cannot, as I said, understand the problems with women in the LDS church. And I would say broader, the broader society because this message isn’t only to the members of the LDS church. But since that’s where I started talking about the Brew ha ha. That happened with women’s voices and experiences in the church. That’s where I’m going to go back to, as I finish up. As I said before, this is the foundation of our church, the things that Brigham Young did to Emma Smith said about Emma Smith the way that Brigham Young used Emma Smith to talk about all of the other women and to force them into their place. That is the foundation of our church. This is the polygamist mindset, the way Brigham Young treated Emma like it or not. Sets the tone for women’s experiences in the church for the many ensuing decades since we still have Brigham Young up on a pedestal and hold him in very high regard. And we still hold on to his false abominable doctrines regarding polygamy and regarding women and regarding Emma Smith, we have Brigham Young up on a pedestal and we think ill of Emma, that is our standard narrative. How are we ok with this? Thankfully, we have done better with Brigham’s awful teachings on race than we have with Brigham’s awful teachings on women. While I don’t know that we can ever fully rectify the damage that was caused by Brigham’s teachings on race. We have at the very least a book published by Deseret book that fully acknowledges that those doctrines are not from God and not from Joseph Smith, but that they originated with Brigham Young and that’s at least a huge step in the right direction. We also have thoroughly condemned all of those ideas. We have disavowed them and condemned them and congratulations, I am glad we have at least done that. That’s at least one big step in the right direction. But for some reason, we have not done anything like the same for Brigham’s statements on women. Um while we have thankfully abandoned the practice, Brigham’s practice of polygamy, we have yet to officially condemn or disavow the teachings or ideas that it was based on. We abhor and reject Brigham’s teachings on race, but we sanction and retain his equally despicable teachings on women. How can we justify this? This is not OK. How can we ever hope to repair the damage if we can’t even stop believing and promoting the ideas that caused the damage? I’m coming back a few days after recording this because I want to acknowledge that in so many ways, the church does empower all of its members by giving us opportunities to teach and to speak and even seeing or perform in front of congregations by helping us grow through tremendous challenges, like serving missions and sharing the book of Mormon by facilitating us to work with others on committees and in councils to head up large projects and organizations by honoring us in our motherhood and fatherhood by helping us learn to seek and share our spiritual insights and by teaching us to love and serve others. These and many other things are beautiful and empowering elements of the church that both men and women benefit from and that I am deeply thankful for yet as a woman in the church, I can say that for many of us, this is not our entire experience when we read our church history and learn how our foremothers were too often treated and what they too often experienced and suffered when we hear what our early leaders taught about us as women. And when we read the words of section 132 and are stabbed to the heart by its lack of care for us. We are not empowered when we experience the dramatic imbalance of men’s and women’s voices, visibility and actual power in the church. We are not empowered when we are told that we may not commune with our divine mother and may even be told that there are many heavenly mothers. And by implication, realize that our highest aspiration for our eternal destiny is to be a nameless, faceless member of a God’s harem who has no access to or connection with our spirit Children. We are not empowered when we feel the reverberations of these past teachings and practices still resonating through the structures of the church today and hear the echoes of them in some of the statements and decisions of our current leaders. We are not empowered. The harsh truth is that no amount of gaslighting statements trying to convince us that our church empowers us as women can overcome the 180 years of deeply embedded sexism that we continue to see, hear and experience in our church. This feels especially poignant when right after this recent outcry and sister Dennis’s assurances that quote, we and our church leaders are listening and learning from the things you shared with us and we hear you, we need you and we care. She then proceeded to give a conference talk just days later, which did not even acknowledge that any of this had happened. I think we all understand that conference talks are generally turned in and approved in advance, but there are times when changes need to be prioritized. And this was one of those times,

[02:30:49] the lack of acknowledgment felt like gas lighting on top of gas lighting. And honestly left me feeling a bit foolish for my statement saying that she was not to be and asking for charity and prayers on her behalf. I do still want that to be our focus. But honestly, it seems like she didn’t really need our charity and prayers at all. From my perspective, I didn’t notice any pain, regret, sorrow, or even any desire to change the message or the status quo. That was hard. I hope that at some point instead of just giving us lip service, telling us we are empowered, seen, heard and cared about. Our leaders actually will listen to the voices of women and take these lessons to heart and show us they care by responding in meaningful ways to the pain. So many women in the church experience and even at times like during the last two weeks, dare to express while they are important and appreciated. We have to recognize that no small token changes of hanging more pictures of women in our buildings or allowing women to say more prayers in general conference or adjusting small things in the temple. None of those things are going to solve this massive problem. They’re not nothing they’re appreciated, but they are not the solution, especially while we still have a canonized section of scripture that literally views speaks of and treats women as nothing but property with absolutely no autonomy, completely disempowered. A section that does not even recognize or acknowledge our humanity. A section directly threatens and demonizes our founding mother, our first strong woman in the church, the elect lady who has been horribly lied about defamed and degraded over our own pulpits and who we still continue to at least some degree blame for the death of her husband. How can we ever be truly empowered? But when that is how we allow Emma to be treated and talked about in our own scriptures and in our own historical narrative like it or not, as I said before, the way we treat and talk about Emma as a church is the way we treat and talk about all women, the messages are inescapable. And while some may disagree, I strongly believe that the problems are not going to be solved by man-made solutions by giving women the priesthood and letting women sit on the stand and high callings by keeping our exact same mindset structure and narrative. But adding women to the hierarchy, how would that be a solution? These are simply not the solutions, the true solutions need to come from God. And there is only one thing that can help us begin to receive those desperately needed answers. And that is repentance, letting go of our historical and religious pride, acknowledgment of past and continuing wrongs, genuine remorse for the pain and harm caused and a willingness to embrace the humility necessary to truly and earnestly seek further light and knowledge from the Lord. I can only imagine what the Lord could begin to do with us and through us if we would actually sincerely repent. But it is one of the most exciting things I can possibly imagine. So I hope that is what we will do. I hope all of you will join with me in spreading this message. Please share this episode. Please share this message because this has got to change. That is my hope and my prayer. I want to sincerely thank you for joining me and I will see you next time.

132 Problems: Revisiting Mormon Polygamy

113: Exonerating Emma – Repenting of Our False Traditions

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